Sudden turn-Now extremely scared

[DallasCarey]

Hello, Very new here, but what an excellent site.
I need help, I have the stupidest fear..I mean I know it' stupid, I've flown hundreds of times and have never once felt any fear until I was on an airplane almost 2 years ago that about 30 minutes after take-off we suddenly were turned (what felt like) almost sideways. I had a window seat and I looked outside and saw the ground directly below me. At this same time we were also dropping drastically. You could tell, We had no idea what was going on. The flight attendants were doing the typical landing position (tray up, seat up..etc), but didn't say anything else. The pilots also didn't say anything (which I appreciate as that meant they were working on the "problem", but also believe that if they had I wouldn't be so scared, because I would have known they were still in control of the plane.

I thought we were literally any moment going to hit the ground. We were dropping so fast and still turning. I almost took my cell phone out and called my mother to say good-bye, but didn't because I knew then it would become more real to me.
What ended up happening is we were heading back to the airport, not heading to the ground. There was an idication of the plane being on fire in the baggage compartment (oddly this didn't scare me). We were 30 minutes out from the airport but made it back in 10 minutes (and sat there while all the fire trucks etc checked us out). It turned out to be false (thankfully), but now the fear has set in. Prior to this, I had flown many many times (200 or so) and never once have I been scared. Bumpy flights didn't bother me, rain/thunder, nothing bothered me and those things still don't. What does is turning. I am scared to death that every little turn the plane makes means that the pilot is out of control and we might be heading for the ground.
It didn't help that shortly after this trip, I read a fiction book about a plane that was spinning out of control straight towards the ground.
I have a fascination of watching planes now take off (spent many hours sitting at the airport) checking out their turns, telling myself that "ok, that's a pretty steep looking turn..and it's normal". But it isn't working.
I need some reassurance, the last flight I took as I was at the counter trying to talk the gal into letting me rebook for the next day (to worked up to fly), the pilot was standing there and he was hearing me tell this story (shorter version), he didn't say anything, but what I REALLY appreciated was that when we turned during the flight he announced it. ("a sweeping right turn" If every Captain could do that, it'd be no problem. I'm one who doesn't like to inconvenice people so I probably won't ask every captain to do that on every flight I take. I just need to know that we were fine and in control, and how far sideways can a plane actually go?

[Barb-SAN]

I need help, I have the stupidest fear..I mean I know it' stupid, I've flown hundreds of times and have never once felt any fear until I was on an airplane almost 2 years ago that about 30 minutes after take-off we suddenly were turned (what felt like) almost sideways......

I am scared to death that every little turn the plane makes means that the pilot is out of control and we might be heading for the ground.
It didn't help that shortly after this trip, I read a fiction book about a plane that was spinning out of control straight towards the ground.

Hi DallasCarey, and :welcome2:
Well, first of all, please don't think that your fear is "stupid". From your description, it sounds like all those hundreds of times you flew without any fear, you just accepted what the plane was doing (including turning ;)) without paying much attention to it. It's only after you had a scary flight that you started paying attention to the turning. And you're right, it's unlikely that most pilots are going to announce every turn to their passengers, because it's so much a part of normal flight.

What I do think is helpful is first, to study a bit of aerodynamics, and parts of the plane, and the mechanics of how the plane turns. Then watch some YouTube videos of normal flights, and see if you can identify the moving parts of the wing, and how they affect the plane. Then, get a window seat near the wing on your next flight, and perhaps take notes along with your observations...what you see, and how you feel in your seat. I really like sitting by a window because it helps me feel oriented in space when the plane is banking.

Here's a link to an excellent website (NASA), The Beginner's Guide to Aeronautics:
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/guided.htm
There are some great animations...I hope a few hours studying will be of some help. And of course, as Aerobat Barb will also tell you...there's nothing like a flight in a small Cessna, with yourself at the controls, with a competent instructor by your side. Once you have experienced controlling those turns yourself, you will have a much better understanding of how it all works. :D

[aerobat]

Hi, DallasCarey, and welcome! :welcome:

I agree completely with Barb about the helpfulness--if you are game--of a flight with an instructor in a small plane. In fact, if you are in Dallas, I'm a flight instructor in Austin in addition to being a longtime member and moderator on these forums (and a former fearful flier), so you'd be welcome to come on down and fly with me. No pressure, of course! :)

Apart from the aerodynamics of banked maneuvers, I'm thinking that you might want to learn more about the neurophysiology of the event you experienced. You won't graduate with an MD :lol:, but you'll be very savvy about trigger events and sensitization, making the process of desensitization very clear. We like to send people to this site:

http://www.anxieties.com
for a start on a good anxiety education.

Here's a relevant anecdote: after having an engine failure in the air in a two-seater (1994) I experienced sensitization to a very specific thing--changes in engine RPM. I understood perfectly well what these sounds were, but nonetheless, for a couple of weeks after the incident (with a good outcome, 'nother story), I would startle when the RPMs dropped off in normal flight (when throttling back, pitching up). Since I had gotten over my monster fear of flying (also another story) before getting my pilot's license, I knew exactly what had happened to me, and used some tools to speed up desensitization. This, plus flying as often as I could, helped tremendously.

What has happened to you is also very specific: you are now hypersensitive to the banking of an aircraft. You will have to purposefully dismantle this connection in your brain (without brain surgery, of course! ;)). It actually shouldn't be that hard.

I have pinged Captain Hutch (currently traveling in Mexico), one of our airline pilots, to come on and tell you what that maneuver likely was. I'm assuming it was (1) an immediate reverse-course--hmmm...do airliners do wingovers? and (2) a power-off emergency descent and (3) a checklist item related to extinguishing any flames reachable by flowing air. In small planes, we would do these same things in case of fire (a very rare event).

(later) I have been in touch with Captain Hutch, who is traveling in Yucatan, Mexico. He can't presently log in, but is working on resolving it. He sent me this comment:

okay, yes, a normal part of the procedure, or can be for some airlines, when beginning an emergency descent, is to turn off or away from the airway as you begin your descent--just in case there is someone below you. Of course you have just told atc that you are declaring an emergency and are going to do whatever you need to so they are a little behind the 8-ball in clearing other traffic away from you, which is the idea behind the initial turn off the airway. As I recall, there is nothing in the rule book where your airline wants to limit your angle of bank in the turn, so it's up to the captain, as it would be anyway in an emergency.

[otbc1994]

I once thought it would be an excellent idea if runways were built on giant turntables so that you can line the runway up with the destination, then, no need for turning!

Unfortunately I was told that this is slightly impractical! Pff!

Anyway, like you, I used to really really hate the turning (well, I hated all of it, the going up, the turning, the coming down, the noises, the feelings, my thoughts and fears), now what I do is sit there and thing 'the plane is doing this because the pilot is asking it to do this', over and over like a mantra. It helps me to reconnect with the idea that there is someone (well, several people) very much in control of the plane at all times.

I'm sure someone can give you the stats, but during 'normal' flight the plane wing only dips something like 30 degrees, well within the operating limits of the plane.

What you went through does sound worrying, but put it this way, it was massively unlikely to happen to you ever, so now you have got it out of the way, it's even more massively unlikely to ever happen again!

[Copacedesiderata]

Dallas - I too have been nervous about banking turns in the past.

I have a suggestion given that you said that it made you feel better when the pilot announced the turn in advance. I would suggest that you fly on United for awhile, if possible, so that you can listen to their Channel 9 communications on the audio channels. Channel 9 is the radio transmission between the pilots and air traffic control, so you can listen to the conversation between the two. It helps me A LOT to hear "United 235 (just an example), turn left heading 260" before we actually start the turn. Then I know that it's coming and that it's a completely normal part of the flight.

If you check in advance using seatguru.com that the flight will be one with audio entertainment then you're likely to have access to Channel 9. I believe that most mainline flights (numbered with less than three digits) are on aircraft with audio. I say "likely" rather than guaranteed because the pilots do have discretion about whether to turn it on or not. However, I've never had a pilot say no once I ask the flight attendant to please see whether the pilot will turn it on (and you can give a brief explanation if you'd like).

I know that Channel 9 has really helped me out, so I hope it will help you! Good luck!

[Barb-SAN]

I know that Channel 9 has really helped me out, so I hope it will help you! Good luck!What a GREAT idea! I haven't flown United (though had heard of Channel 9), so that didn't occur to me. But it's definitely a good idea...and a way to know what the pilots are doing without them having to announce it to the entire plane over the PA system.

I'd also suggest doing some flight tracking of one's flight in advance, so that you can see where the turns are likely to occur, and why.

Oh, and Copacedesiderata, Welcome to Taking Flight! :welcome2:

[DallasCarey]

Thank-You ALL so very much! I've spent the last few days, reading your replies and checking out the links and I feel better already! (hoping this feeling follows me in my upcoming flights). :)
The links were wonderful and just knowing the mechanics of the plane (and the comment that was made about -turns being such a normal part of flying-made me feel a lot more comfortable too, it was like a light went off that yes, banking on a flight is normal, which I already knew, but needed to hear it from someone else!)

The ONLY thing that got me wondering is when it was stated that the amount the plane banks (example..20% 30%) is up to the pilot, makes me wonder. What is to much? IS there a point that is to much? Is it possible for a plane if taken to that point of "to much" to actually flip? (I realize I've never in my life heard of this happening..but) :(
I am still researching the links with the mechanics of the plane and never even thought before about the center of gravity etc..on a plane...Science wasn't my best subject, and I can't recall what it takes for the center of gravity to change on a plane if that is even possible.:confused:

But for the rest of it again Thank-You all so much!!!

[Kimmar]

Pilots are *very* limited to how much they can bank, even in an emergency type situation. They learn all this good stuff in "pilot school" and they never approach anything that would ever be considered "risky" or even "near risky" or even "near, near risky" cause it would cost them their job!

Pilots like their jobs! LOL

Also, the feeling of banking is not one we get very often as when we turn in a car we don't have the same "roll" as we have in the plane. You *will* feel it on a motorcycle, (my dh drives one) and it's still a feeling that I have to think about when I am on the plane.

Can't quite get over that "looking directly at the ground but I'm really sideways" kinda feeling, (but I'm working on it! I love me a window seat now! LOL) It's weird and we don't normally get oriented that way unless we are falling so I think maybe that's why it causes some discomfort. I'm going to try and remember that on my next flight out. We almost always bank immediately when we leave my city, so I get alot of chances to think about it.

This is probably helping me more than it's helping you! :lol: