Newbie!

[Tammie_M3ENF]

Hope I've picked the right thread to post in...

First of all, hi everyone... hope you all had a great Christmas! Happy New Year for 2011!

I have flown twice. When I was 18 I flew from London Gatwick to Schipol (sp?) in The Netherlands. I can't really remember much about it now but I do know it wasn't the best feeling in the world. I'm now 27 and flew for the second time in June of this year from London Gatwick to Dublin Ireland.

I was terrified. From the speed and bumps and the being pulled back in my seat on take-off, to the noise and ups and down as the flight went on, to the small amount of turbulance and then the horrible feeling you get as the plane descends and levels on the way down. The pilot was on the way down when suddenly we surged back up without explanation leaving me even more terrified and it wasn't til we were on the ground that he apologised and said someone else took out landing slot.

The other thing that made it worse was the pilot announced over Cardiff that we were over Cardiff but 30,000 feet up. Thanks Mr Pilot, just what I wanted to hear.

So that's me, one very scared flyer. I worry about turbulance, terrorists, crashes, solar flares wiping out the electrics and comms etc etc.

[MathFox]

Hi and :welcome2:

Yes, you've come to the right place to discuss (your) Fear of Flying. As you already may know (if you've read some of the other threads) we recommend to visit http://www.anxieties.com and work through the "Fear of Flying" program there, it will give you tools to control your anxiety. Feel free to come here and ask questions, there are many recovering and ex-fearful fliers on the boards that can give you helpful answers. If you have technical questions, you can ask one of our resident pilots.

[Tammie_M3ENF]

Hi MathFox :)

Thanks for the welcome!

I've dived in and read quite a few of the posts, especially the "success" stories.

I've even popped over to the anxieties web-site and had a browse.

I still have all the concerns/worries/fears as mentionned in the post, but I'll continue to check out the forum and chip in when I can :)

Tammie

[MathFox]

Hi Tammie,

You sound a lot more relaxed today. :) Were there issues outside flying that made you say "I hate everything of flying!"? (If you want to keep them private, fine, but make a note for yourself.) Many fearful fliers notice that stress from work (or family) increases their anxiety.

[Tammie_M3ENF]

Issues? Nothing specific. Altho post 9/11 that has affected me. Saying that, I'm very much a stay-at-home person anyway and hate being away from my parents and my Mum also gets terrified that something will happen to me. I'd hate for something to happen and I left my parents and our pets behind :( That is a big factor in being scared.

As for stress... I actually had something pretty big happen just over a year ago (my boyf of a few years passed away and his family have been making my life a living hell since) but I don't think it's directly affected my fear... in a way it's made me want to travel more because you just never know what's going to happen.

Like today I found out some news about an ex-friend passing away and it's made me realise life is short. Maybe I'm just being philosophical because it's New Year's Eve?!?

[Captain Hutch]

Hi Tammie,

Yes, you have come to the right place--welcome. There are a lot of experts here, so they should be able to help.

I apologize for your pilot experience. I always feel bad when a member of my (former) profession does not provide a most comfortable flying experience for the passengers.

Once again, thanks for joining us.

Hutch :tiphat:

[aerobat]

Hi, Tammie,

Sorry to be late jumping in. I've been very busy getting ready to leave the country and get a presentation together.

Issues? Nothing specific. Altho post 9/11 that has affected me. Saying that, I'm very much a stay-at-home person anyway and hate being away from my parents and my Mum also gets terrified that something will happen to me. I'd hate for something to happen and I left my parents and our pets behind :( That is a big factor in being scared.


From what you've said, it makes sense to me that these are direct factors in your fear of flying. Our minds do this sort of thing to us--let others' fears about our safety become our own fears, and let a lot of things which should be separate run together and create generalized fear. And then the airplane becomes a catch-all for these feelings. You have been under a lot of stress from what you say:( and with some great losses. :hug: On top of that, the experience of flying is still very new to you and there are some big unknowns. It takes time and repetition to get used to turbulence; that process can be helped by getting knowledge and support. But if you're worrying about solar flares knocking out the avionics of your aircraft (has that happened?), then why not worry about solar flares scorching the earth when you're walking around on it, or about meteors falling through the roof? That at least has happened. ;) Not very often.

Actually, I'm not trying to tell you to just stop reacting, but to explore the processes of anxiety so that you can step back and cultivate what we call your "supportive observer", so that you can understand better how you are reacting and then choose to work toward a different reaction. It takes time, and also some flying, to accomplish this.

It's perfectly fine to be a homebody. I have a big homebody streak myself, and it is getting its cage rattled a bit as I prepare to fly to Peru from Texas on Monday. I have been learning a lot from letting my supportive observer pay attention (and making notes). I'll say more about this in another post, but I just meant to say that it seems normal to me--whenever we are nudged out of our comfort zone, we feel..well, uncomfortable. And if we allow it, our silly brain (love that phrase!) will pin the cause on the least familiar thing in that uncomfy space. For you (and for lots of us), it's the airplane and it's made worse by having to surrender and trust the pilots. The things which seem safe or non-issues to them (a go-around, or announcing your position over a landmark six miles up) could be an anxiety trigger for the passengers. Maybe not for most, but the stats say one in four passengers aren't happy fliers.

The great thing about anxieties.com is that it offers tools that get us out of our heads and into doing something about our feelings. It's a step-by-step process. Thanks for posting and please stay with us! :)

[Tammie_M3ENF]

Hello Captain Hutch :) From reading a lot of your postings on the forum I think I should hire you as my pilot should I decide to fly again because you sound like a great pilot :) :cool: Yes, it's a shame when not all pilots do things properly, even something simple as explaining what happened. I guess that's what I get for travelling with a "cheap" airline.

Hello Aerobat :) I see your flights have all made it safely to their destinations and I wish you a happy and safe return flight also!! I hope your conference goes well also!

I don't know if a solar flare has knocked out aeroplane "things" (erm, not sure of the technical term, maybe equipment?!?) but I know it has knocked out communications on radio and TV... it can be as simple as suddenly hearing stations on FM or AM that are further away that you normally hear (for instance, in the UK when solar flares happen we can hear FM stations in France, Germany and as far as Spain... which of course is not normal) OR it can be TV signals being wiped out completely (which did happen here a few weeks ago; normal TV as well as satellite transmissions were affected). Scientists are predicting stronger flares in 2011 and 2012 (2012 maybe linked to what your conference is about!).

Yes, I think because flying is so new to me is part of the fear. Driving is something I do everyday and have done for almost 10 years now; whereas flying I have done twice (well, four times there and back twice lol).

Thanks again everyone for all the welcomes :)

[MathFox]

I do not know of a case where solar flares have caused a failure of plane electronics. The metal hull of the plane protects against the charged particles that "survive" their trip through the atmosphere. Solar flares do not "knock out" radio communications but may make it harder, especially when there is interference from planes and controllers that are too far away to be normally heard. However, ATC has some spare frequencies to use when their normal frequency goes bad. There even are procedures for when radio contact with a plane is lost.

Yes, I think because flying is so new to me is part of the fear. Driving is something I do everyday and have done for almost 10 years now; whereas flying I have done twice (well, four times there and back twice lol).
Then part of the answer is to become more familiar with flying. You could go to an airport and do "plane spotting" (watch planes take-off and land) or try to identify overflying planes. http://www.flightradar24.com/ might have coverage in your area, showing how many planes fly every day. You could go to websites of airlines, finding pictures of the planes, so that you can identify them.
Some of the braver even took up flying lessons, but that carries a serious risk of getting addicted and becoming a professional pilot. :ray:

[Tammie_M3ENF]

Hi MathFox

Ok on the solar flares. I will keep reading up on them in the amateur/ham radio magazines and from the talks I go to because I find all that fascinating anyway :)

That flight radar web-site is great... when I checked earlier there was a plane over my town - it seems I'm on a flight path into Gatwick or Heathrow... I've always noticed planes so I assumed I was. I noticed there is even an iPhone app that you can point to the sky and it will show you what is "up there" in the part of the sky which looks pretty neat, there is also one for shipping (but that goes by area of sea).

I will have to try plane-spotting. I usually try when I'm going past Gatwick on the plane or driving past Heathrow on the motorway... they come over very low into Heathrow on the road.

Don't think I'm likely to take up flying lessons :P I think I'm happy being in control of my four wheels in the car on the ground :) But respect to those of you who do!!!

[MathFox]

Well, I typed a few words into Google and found this excellent PDF: http://www.plane-spotter.com/Airports/UK/LHR/SpotterGuide_LHR.pdf

Some general tips: Park your car at a safe (and legal) spot and walk the last meters to where the view is best. Take your camera; if you plan to stay longer lunch and (hot) drinks, take your garbage back home. Warm clothing that protects against rain is recommended.

[Captain Hutch]

Tammie_M3ENF,

Thank you for the pilot compliment. Should I decide to come out of retirement I will be sure to have you as one of my passengers.

Thanks for bringing up the intriguing topic of solar flares. I should start out by saying that I see you are an amateur radio operator--hence your special interest in solar storms-- and a good one at that, judging by your many awards. I actually am one too, but I haven't operated for several years, though my license is still current. I remember operating back in the late 60's and praying for solar flares because that was the only time I could make some contacts on 15 and 20 meters--normally those bands were dead for low power guys like me.

Well I'm sure you know that these solar storms peak about every 11 years (I think the latest number is about 10.7 year average), and now there is set to be another peak in 2011 and 2012. I will tell you what I know and then try to conjecture a little on the future. I think the main difference is that we are 11 years down the road from the last peak, so there are a lot more electronics now then there were before.

The frequencies that the commercial airliners use for normal communications with air traffic control are in the Very High Frequency range, or from about 118 mHz to 136 mHz, while navigation and precision approaches use 108 mHz to 118 mHz. Solar flares directly affect the lower frequency ranges, below 30 mHz because of ionizing radiation changing the characteristics of the ionosphere and thus the characteristics of the radio waves bouncing off of this particular atmospheric layer. The am broadcast band is at a low frequency too so if you are listening to a station here or operating a ham radio in the High Frequency range, below 30 mHz, you might lose a near station but hear a distant one (Tammie I know you already know that!). But the aviation frequencies as I said operate in the VHF and are line of sight, that is they don't require any bouncing off atmospheric layers and so aren't affected. And so far, I have not heard of any incidences related to solar storms and the airlines have already operated through many peaks of the cycles. In fact, I remember in years past flying at night and observing the beautiful Aurora Borealis, a by-product of such storms, and not having a communication problem.

Commercial airliners also have internal inertial navigation systems, totally independent of outside sources to determine position and navigation, so I don't believe these systems would be affected.

I realize that large power grids could be affected (and have, as I understand an outage in Quebec in 1989), which are very low frequency systems, and also some satellite systems. Now as I understand it, we are able to predict these flares a couple of days in advance, and I suspect if it was thought there would be a problem then at the worst some flights might be cancelled ahead of time, much like when volcanic activity occurs. I'm confident that there will be much testing in this area. By the way, I can't explain the FM outage that you mentioned in the UK a short time ago.

So when you hear of reliable information on the solar flares please let us know.

Thanks,

Hutch :tiphat:

[bellevueace]

All great advice, i would also recommend flying without fear by Duane brown you can get it on amazon, its a very good read and covers everything from crew training, aircraft safety back up systems, to turbulence and anxieties. Theres a step by step guide through a flight so you know exactly what is happening at any given time of your flight, this part helped me, actually knowing what all the odd noises and sensations are calmed the fears, its a worthwhile read.

[ThrottleHold]

Tomorrow I will be operating an Ultra Long Range flight which goes over the North Pole.
Our flight planning takes into account the forecasts for space weather. Geomagnetic Storms, Solar Radiation Storms and Radio Blackouts are all taken into consideration. Each of these is ranked 1 to 5, with 1 being minor and 5 being extreme.
If solar radiation is ranked at 3 or higher, then the flight is limited to max FL310 (31,000ft).
If geomagnetic storm activity is at levels 4 or 5, then flights over the polar region are prohibited.

The website www.swpc.noaa.gov gives info on the current space weather.