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lieberma
10-20-2004, 12:58 AM
Passengers say the darndest things....

First, understanding landings. When an airplane makes an approach into an airport, the pilot will 99.99 percent of the time want to land into the wind. The purpose of this is to slow the airplane down. We have "airspeed" and then we have "ground speed". My approach to a landing in my airplane is 72 mph. If there is no wind, then my ground speed is the same. If I have a 10 mph head wind, with the wind "blowing in my face", then my ground speed is 62 mph (72mph airspeed - 10 mph headwind). When the wheels touch the ground, that means I am doing 62 mph which makes for a shorter time to stop and turn off the runway.

Unfortunately, mother nature doesn't always blow the wind right down the runway. Sometimes the wind will blow across the runway. This is called a cross wind. Imagine driving down a highway on a windy day, where you feel the wind rock your car left and right. A car has the wheels on the ground that holds you on the road. You won't drift right or left, unless you let your mind do that ;)

An airplane doesn't have that extra liberty in the air of it's wheels holding it straight down the runway. If the wind is blowing right to left, then the pilot has to compensate for this by "steering" into the wind.

When you are sitting as a passenger, you may notice the airplane's wings rocking right and left, but if you watch carefully, you may notice the right wind lower then the left wing. (or vice versa) This is called a cross wind landing. Keeping in user friendly terms, pilots call this technique "crabbing" or "slipping" depending on the descent profile to the runway.

You may have experienced a "wierd" landing where one side of the plane touches the ground first, then the second side touches down. The pilot probably was executing a cross wind landing. Though not comfortable for the passenger, this is done so that the wind does not pick the airplane back up in the air.

So..... If you are ever on a flight where a pilot feels like he is wiggling and jiggling the plane, rocking the wings and doing everything that you may think defies the logic of landing, it is a good chance that it was a cross wind landing.

I participate in Usenet Newsgroups. Below, between the lines was posted by another pilot which I though you would enjoy after reading such boring stuff like explaining crosswind landings :airplane
-----------------
Just a funny little story...

I was landing a C172 the other day with the family aboard. We were on
final with a pretty decent cross wind from the right. I dipped the
right wing down a little, maintained track with opposite rudder,
touched down right main first, etc... You know, just the standard,
every day, boring, low-wing-into-the-wind approach. Turned out to be a
smooth & straight landing. As I was rolling out, the following
conversation with my wife ensued:

Me: "How's that for a nice landing, Heh?"
Wife: "Not bad, considering we helped."
Me: (confused) "You helped??"
Wife: "Yeah, obviously you had trouble keeping the wings level, so we
were leaning to the left."

I can't make this crap up.
-----------------
So, I will have to remember, if I want the passenger to lean on me, I will dip my right wing :wired

Hmmm..... maybe a good way to initiate a mile high club encounter. Lean right to lean left....:blush

Allen

WillFlyToDisney2
10-21-2004, 07:49 PM
LOL Allen at the Mile High Club reference - cant imagine that would be too easy in a C172...

Kelley
(on the road again....)

xiknal
10-21-2004, 08:48 PM
...in the back seat of a 172 it would be pretty doable. Front seat, well...easier than in a 152! That's a feat that deserves a niche in the Guinness rolls...:cheers

EditorASC
10-22-2004, 02:26 AM
"When you are sitting as a passenger, you may notice the airplane's wings rocking right and left, but if you watch carefully, you may notice the right wind lower then the left wing. (or vice versa) This is called a cross wind landing. Keeping in user friendly terms, pilots call this technique "crabbing" or "slipping" depending on the descent profile to the runway."

[Lieberma]

==================

Actually, in a true crab the wings would be level. You may dip the right or left wing a few times, until you get just the right amount of crab, so that you are tracking the runway centerline, but those minor adjusting turns should be coordinated ones, not sloppy slipping ones.

The slip should come only at the last moment, when you transition from the crab to the touchdown----by cross controlling, so that the heading of the airplane matches the heading of the runway, while the wing is dipped to compensate for the side drift----so the landing gear will not be burdened with an excessive sideload, when the wheels touch the pavement.

:macho

lieberma
10-22-2004, 02:47 AM
Actually, in a true crab the wings would be level. You may dip the right or left wing a few times, until you get just the right amount of crab, so that you are tracking the runway centerline, but those minor adjusting turns should be coordinated ones, not sloppy slipping ones

Very true Editor ASC.

However to the FOF passenger, all they see is wings rocking up and down while you adjust your slip or crab on your descent to landing.

A 2 degree bank to a FOF passenger may feel like a steep turn / bank "relatively speaking". Especially when you go rockabye baby on the wing tip...... :happyguy

I figured to throw in the techie terms without getting too techie.

Therefore, I simplified the terms keeping in mind the theme of the forum and the "primary" audience that are reading the forum.

Allen

EditorASC
10-22-2004, 02:56 AM
"A 2 degree bank to a FOF passenger may feel like a steep turn...."

Not if the turn is coordinated (ball in the center)...... :)

lieberma
10-22-2004, 03:22 AM
Not if the turn is coordinated (ball in the center)......

You can be rest assured, I have yet talked about the turn coordinator to a new passenger in my plane. :tada

All I say about that instrument when I point out the various gauges when we are sitting in the plane is that it shows the quality of a turn in the plane and I go on to the next instrument that has a more significant meaning (altimeter - how high we are and so on).

FOF passengers are more visually clued by movements of the airplane then feeling the quality of flight in the seat of their pants. All they see is the wings, and any movement up and down is not natural to them when we are suppose to be flying straight.

Once the wing goes up "above their head", it won't matter about "stepping on the ball" as just like turbulence, it is all relative to the "fear factor". As you already know, it doesn't take much turning / bank angle of the wings to get the tip above your head.

Allen

Passenger Mark
10-22-2004, 05:53 AM
I bet Captain Bob... aka EditorASC has made a few coordinated turns. Here is a photo of him coming through downtown Hong Kong!

http://www.takingflight.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_9801LastAppchKaiTak.jpg

Disney fan
10-22-2004, 01:17 PM
Just Love that picture, but remain glad that I was not on the plane going through all those buildings!