Huge AA at T-36hours

[gordies]

hello everyone. Its back and its bigger than ever. How on earth do we get rid of AA once and for all?

on Monday felt fantastic and if I could have got on a flight there and then I would have been fine. Now at T-36 I am ready to cancel.

This trip is highly significant and very important and consists of a 5hr flight, then a 1hr flight followed one week later by a 1hr then a 1hr 15min then another week later a 1hr 15min followed by the 5 hour home.

It would be brilliant to be able to do all these one after the other as it would assist enormously on getting me back on track but the AA has hit tonight in mega fashion.

I am ready to forget it all and throw in the towel as I really dont fancy sitting at 40,000 feet for a few hours. I have been watching loads of flight rotations on flightlevel350.com and the higher the aircraft the worse I feel.

Any suggestions before I pull the plug?

cheers, Gordies

[aerobat]

Book a short practice roundtrip flight right now, for today, and do an end-run around the AA.

Seriously, Gordie. Move a mountain or two to make it happen.

[bellevueace]

I found in situations like these thought stopping worked well. Identify the fear and stop it in its tracks by referring to the knowledge gained about the aviation industry, concentrating on the positive facts stops the irrational worrying running wild.

[gordies]

I found in situations like these thought stopping worked well. Identify the fear and stop it in its tracks by referring to the knowledge gained about the aviation industry, concentrating on the positive facts stops the irrational worrying running wild.

I have no fear about technical faults, engine failure, crashing, turbulence or anything like that.

I do not like the idea of being confined for 5 hours at 40,000 feet. I quite happily sit on trains for 5 hours at a time with no problem.

Gordies

[MathFox]

I found in situations like these thought stopping worked well. Identify the fear and stop it in its tracks by referring to the knowledge gained about the aviation industry, concentrating on the positive facts stops the irrational worrying running wild.
And do something to neutralise excess adrenalin from stress and excitement. Go jogging, kick or hit a ball... exercise! :hyped::hyped::hyped:

[bellevueace]

Sitting on a train no doubt is more comfy as its not 30,000ft up in the air. Studying the actual facts of how much safer air travel is to rail travel is a starting point to alleviating AA. Fears about enclosed spaces feelings of being trapped etc are similar to being on a train, i mean your not in control of it, you cant just open the door and step off when in motion, i would try making comparisons then concentrate on the better safety aspect of air travel. Having no fears about turbulence, engine failure, crashing, etc only leaves heights that could spark the anxiety. Funnily i hate heights but have no sense of height on an aircraft.

[TXflyer]

One little trick that has worked for me is to schedule a short period of time (maybe 30 minutes) of permitted worrying the morning of or night before a flight. When I would start to worry, it would make me stop and set it aside... and I found after using just some of that time to really get my worries out, I was pretty good (until I got to the airport, LOL, but at least it got me there, and stubbornness got me onto the plane, and the plane got me to my destination, safe and sound).

Also, even though your anxiety is centered more around heights than mechanics, I think you can still come up with some thought stopping techniques if you want to -- remind yourself that as abnormal as it feels for you to be 40,000ft up in the air, it happens all the time and is safe and normal.

Also, I'd try reading through the anxieties.com info on FoF, even if you have before. It's good stuff.

Well, those things are what help me the most -- hope you find whatever will help you... AA is ugly but it's beatable, too!

[Barb-SAN]

hello everyone. Its back and its bigger than ever. How on earth do we get rid of AA once and for all?
Any suggestions before I pull the plug?
cheers, Gordies
Hi Gordies,
Just wanted to add my good wishes here for successful flights, and share a few thoughts.

First, at least for me, AA is a fact of life, and not just for flying. I think it is part of being human, actually (it's our fight or flight response, fueled by adrenaline...so you can outrun the sabertoothed tiger ;)).

So, for me, the "solution" has been to expect some AA whenever I'm doing something new and out of my "comfort zone". Then my focus switches to recognizing, and managing it.

Other folks here have posted ideas for how to do that. Personally, I find exercise, breathing properly, progressive muscle relaxation, and distraction to have the most immediate effect (especially exercise, at the airport, in the hour before the flight...enough walking/stair climbing to feel tired and ready to sit still on the plane).
I am ready to forget it all and throw in the towel as I really dont fancy sitting at 40,000 feet for a few hours... I have been watching loads of flight rotations on flightlevel350.com and the higher the aircraft the worse I feel
Every time you "reward" yourself by backing out of a flight because of anxiety, you are making it harder to do the next time you try to fly. :cry:

I'm wondering what you are DOING as you watch the flightlevel 350 videos. Are you practicing any relaxation techniques at the same time? What are you thinking as you are watching the videos? How is your breathing? The videos can be great tools for imagining yourself RELAXED on the plane.

What is AMAZING, when you think about it, is that you are seeing PROOF of how powerful your imagination is.
Here you are sitting safely in front of your computer, IMAGINING yourself at 40,000 ft., and that is enough to generate an adrenaline response, even when there is no present danger whatsoever.

So...can you imagine yourself CALM and enjoying the flight?? :happyguy:

[gordies]

I can watch the videos from a passengers perspective and have no wobbles watching take off and landing. Watching a video showing cruise altitude gets the wobbles going.

Off to see a new therapist next week. I told her absolutely everything in an email and now we are having a free initial one-to-one chat.

Have abandoned tomorrow and cancelled all flights.

Who knows what is coming next?

[Barb-SAN]

Gordies, I am SO, SO sorry to hear that you canceled your flights tomorrow. :hug:

I hope that working with a therapist in person will be more effective for you...please keep us posted. Will she be able to accompany you on an actual flight (or at least be in cell phone contact with you in the hours before the flight and when you are boarding)??

What turned out to be "key" for me to get over the hump after being grounded for 13 yrs. was realizing that there were specific techniques I could use that would rapidly decrease sensations of anxiety. I saw the visual proof of this working with a therapist specializing in biofeedback. She used a heart rate variability monitor as well as sensors to measure muscle tension.

Later I bought my own biofeedback program, and used that in conjunction with watching a flying video repeatedly. It was filmed in the cockpit of a small training airplane. I saw measurable improvement in my response over time to that video, and that gave me confidence that it was possible to calm myself once I was on the plane.

Of course I did lots of other things too, and continue to learn more about aviation, anxiety, etc. from books, this board, real life experiences, etc.

There is hope as long as you are willing to keep working at it. The fact that you are able to generate an anxiety response when watching flying videos imagining yourself at 40,000 ft. should be helpful in therapy (i.e. gives the therapist something "concrete" to work with).
:thumbsup:

[bellevueace]

The aircraft is operating at its safest when at cruise, take off and landing being the most dangerous parts of a flight, albeit not as dangerous as crossing the road. Its also easier at cruise to distract yourself, mp3 player, crossword, book etc.

[Barb-SAN]

The aircraft is operating at its safest when at cruise, take off and landing being the most dangerous parts of a flight, albeit not as dangerous as crossing the road. Its also easier at cruise to distract yourself, mp3 player, crossword, book etc.

All very true. I wonder if part of the issue though is the idea of being SO FAR AWAY from Earth? Sort of a fundamental "separation anxiety"?

I went through a bad earthquake in Guatemala in 1976 (Feb. 4, as a matter of fact). Part of what was so unsettling, besides the destruction, were the frequent aftershocks. One expects a "stable", non-shaking Earth beneath one's feet. Having unpredictable shaking (especially if you haven't experienced it before) is very unsettling. It challenges one's perceptions of the very basics of Earth-characteristics (solid, dependable, non-moving).

In the same way, being 7 miles above the surface of the Earth may make some people uneasy, just because it is hard to imagine being SO HIGH UP compared to where they normally spend their time. Not even a safety issue really, maybe more like claustrophobia?

I went in a submarine once in Hawaii, and we went down 80 ft. below the surface. Fortunately there were lots of interesting fish, etc. to view out of the huge windows. But still, it was a little freaky thinking that you were "stuck" in there for the duration (and couldn't just open a door and swim to the surface). It was another "foreign" environment.

Maybe Gordies will drop back in and elaborate more what it is about being 40,000 ft. up that gives him "the wobbles". (And what exactly are "the wobbles" like, anyway?)

[Kimmar]

I can watch the videos from a passengers perspective and have no wobbles watching take off and landing. Watching a video showing cruise altitude gets the wobbles going.



I'm going to suggest that you are not feeling *secure* when you are at cruise, because you don't think the plane as being as well supported by the air, as the train or car is by the ground. At least, that's how *I* used to think about it, and I don't think I'm the only FOFer who could imagine that...

You know, the old "Hey, it's only *air* holding this huge tube of metal with all these human bodies (how much does this thing weigh anyway?) up here at 40,000 feet away from Terra Firma...OMG:eek: Air can't even hold up (you name it) how can it possibly hold up this huge plane???"

I'm going to link you to a thread that was pretty much a turning point in my FOFing and has revolutionized how I think about planes being in the air. Hope it has the same effect for you. It's a long thread on here, but well worth the read. (What have you got to lose, but your fear anyway?? LOL)

I see now that I originally posted this question 2 years ago! So you'll see me struggling to make sense of flying and trying to get a good grip on what *really* happens while the plane is in the air. I did make that trip to Florida, by the way, and am about to take another one in March. I can hardly wait this time!

http://www.takingflight.us/forums/showthread.php?t=8071

[bellevueace]

Gordies, I am SO, SO sorry to hear that you canceled your flights tomorrow. :hug:

I hope that working with a therapist in person will be more effective for you...please keep us posted. Will she be able to accompany you on an actual flight (or at least be in cell phone contact with you in the hours before the flight and when you are boarding)??

What turned out to be "key" for me to get over the hump after being grounded for 13 yrs. was realizing that there were specific techniques I could use that would rapidly decrease sensations of anxiety. I saw the visual proof of this working with a therapist specializing in biofeedback. She used a heart rate variability monitor as well as sensors to measure muscle tension.

Later I bought my own biofeedback program, and used that in conjunction with watching a flying video repeatedly. It was filmed in the cockpit of a small training airplane. I saw measurable improvement in my response over time to that video, and that gave me confidence that it was possible to calm myself once I was on the plane.

Of course I did lots of other things too, and continue to learn more about aviation, anxiety, etc. from books, this board, real life experiences, etc.

There is hope as long as you are willing to keep working at it. The fact that you are able to generate an anxiety response when watching flying videos imagining yourself at 40,000 ft. should be helpful in therapy (i.e. gives the therapist something "concrete" to work with).
:thumbsup:

I think youve hit the nail on the head. Human beings arent meant to fly and being so high above the earth really is unatural to us, we are well out of our comfort zone so in a lot of cases i think the survival factor kicks in, its a matter of training yourself that you are doing something which is natural which nowadays flying is.

[Barb-SAN]

I think youve hit the nail on the head. Human beings arent meant to fly and being so high above the earth really is unatural to us, we are well out of our comfort zone so in a lot of cases i think the survival factor kicks in, its a matter of training yourself that you are doing something which is natural which nowadays flying is.
Yep, I think this is a case where you can "overthink" where you are, and what is really happening. It doesn't really matter if you are at 10,000 ft. or 40,000 ft. Your airplane is a self-contained vehicle with all that you need to survive...fresh air, heat, comfortable seats (more or less), food that you've packed, etc. You are traveling vast distances at high speed, an experience that would have been unthinkable even 100 years ago.

I just reread my last post. It seems a bit rambling now, "comfort zone" was my point, and that flying, earthquakes, submarines all share "not-comfort-zone", at least until we have enough experience to become comfortable with them (may not EVER happen with earthquakes!).

In my case, experiencing a strong earthquake sensitized me to sudden shaking movements (a quick response, duck and cover, or run, might save your life). Turbulence can feel somewhat like earthquake motions...so if you are sensitized, feeling that motion starts the survival adrenaline flowing. I had to figure out how to sever the connection in my brain between turbulence and earthquake danger. Still a work in progress, but taking the Cessna lessons helped a great deal to "visualize" turbulence. It also helps me to have a window seat where I can see the wing and watch it flex during turbulence.
I still get the adrenaline rushes when we have earthquake tremors. Figure my body is mobilizing to react quickly if necessary...so just let it do its thing...:rolleyes:

I'm going to suggest that you are not feeling *secure* when you are at cruise, because you don't think the plane as being as well supported by the air, as the train or car is by the ground. At least, that's how *I* used to think about it, and I don't think I'm the only FOFer who could imagine that...
That's another aspect, and that's a good, informative thread that you linked. I did SOAR some years ago, and "jello" is part of my arsenal of tricks. (I think of red jello, with marshmallows stuck in it...flashbacks to school lunches).