Holding Patterns

[Barb-SAN]

Capt. Hutch, would you tell us about your experiences with holding patterns? I was tracking some SWA flights into SAN this morning, and I posted the flight tracks on this thread in the general discussion forum. http://www.takingflight.us/forums/showthread.php?p=82464#post82464 .

All three planes went into holding patterns part way through their flights (there was fog in SAN). I'm impressed by how precise the patterns are, and wondered if they are flown "by hand", or if the coordinates are put into the flight computer, and the autopilot flies the holding patterns?

Are there particular areas along a given route that are commonly used for holding patterns if required?

What is the highest number of circles/ovals/laps(?) (or longest time) you've flown while in a holding pattern? (inquiring minds....:rolleyes:)

Do you find departure delays more common than holding patterns?

Are there any other reasons to fly a holding pattern besides weather and traffic congestion at the destination?

Do you usually make an announcement to the passengers if you have to fly a holding pattern (either about the number of banking turns, or the reason for doing them)?

Here's an attached screen shot of one of the holding patterns from the flights I was tracking this morning (SWA Flt.#1011, Sacramento to San Diego). It looks to me like that smaller circle is a lap cut short as the plane exited the holding pattern.

I just went back and took a look at the Track Log for SWA flight 1011 on FlightAware. It appears that it was in that holding pattern from 8:15AM to 9:24AM, based on the coordinates, and the fact that the speed dropped from a cruising speed of around 450 kts. to between 250 and 350 kts while circling. I suppose there's no point in speeding around and around the "track"...;)

[CAflyer]

one of my first flights I ever took was in a holding pattern for 45 minutes! I remember the Pilot coming over the intercom and saying it would be 45 minutes until we could land. it was a big plane, maybe a 767 and we were flying into LAX at night, I think there was a lot of traffic. This is when I wasn't scared to fly.

[Dachiri]

On my return from my first China trip last June, we had to make a lap around Rockville, IL, for ATC to decide which way we were going to come in (shifting winds at O'Hare). At the time, I was still pretty terrified of the "turning" part, so this did not make me happy, but what DID make me happy was that the pilot came on and said we would be making a left turn into a circle, and then, when told to land from the East, that we would be going out past O'Hare and making a left to come back to land. It was good to at least know what to expect! I doubt the pilot knew how much that helped some scardy-cat in the back (I didn't get to meet the pilots before this particular flight), but it was great to get so much information from up front (er, up top, it was a 747)!

[tusphotog]

I've been in a them many times over the years. I remember once flying into Atlanta in July and a storm closed the airport. They put us in a brief hold over Wichita, a good 45 minute hold over Nashville, and someplace in northern Georgia. The pilot said they were "pretty backed up" at ATL. On another trip through ATL, I remember we were in the middle of a "stack" of planes. A few on top of us and a few below us. Kinda neat to see everyone so close.

I was under the impression that the holds are programmed in the flight management computer, and ATC gives the crew a fix, or radio beacon or something like that to hold over, and also gives them a distance to fly (i.e. 8 mile legs with a 2 mile turn). I highly doubt they're hand flown, especially the long ones.

[MathFox]

While ATC can give pilots a hold over any fix, there are some pre-planned holds for the standard approaches, like the one on the left side in http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KSAN/IAP/LOC+RWY+27

You might also be interested in the explanation here: http://airplanepilot.blogspot.com/2005/03/hold-timing_14.html

[Captain Hutch]

Hi BarbSAN,

Another interesting question! Well, back in the days when I was flying the 737-200, we didn't have an FMC (flight management computer), so we had to handfly the holding pattern. There are rules for the initial entry into the pattern, either left turn or right turn depending on your heading upon entry, and rules for the speed and time in the hold depending upon your altitude. There are a lot of published holding patterns shown on our charts that the controllers will issue directions for if he needs a plane to hold. On the approach plate many times the missed approach procedure will end up in a holding pattern. Yes now most pilots can quickly program a holding pattern into the computer and the plane will fly the whole thing. The FAR's (Federal Air Regulations) dictate time, one minute or one and a half minutes per leg (one straight side of the pattern), but most pilots request that the leg be 10nm so that they don't have to turn so often. If ATC wants you to hold and there is no convenient published pattern, he will give you the radial (opposite the bearing) off a certain fix, ie "Cactus 1452 hold west on the 090 degree radial 20 mile fix off of Atlanta VOR, 10 mile legs, right hand turns, expect further clearance at one-four-five-zero zee, time now one-four-two-zero". At this point both pilots are scrambling for their pencils to draw out the pattern on their little pad of paper and then comparing notes to see if each pilot agrees with exactly how the pattern will be flown. Then, if not before, one pilot will insert the parameters into the computer and let the plane do its thing, noting with great anticipation that the airplane executes the proper direction for the initial turn.

In the past we carried a lot of extra fuel and so holding times of 1 hour or more were not uncommon. One of the few improvements in the ATC system has decreased holding time in the air by holding more planes on the ground prior to takeoff, so now-a-days there are more ground delays than holding patterns.

As you mentioned, most of the holding patterns are due to weather, either at the destination airport or along the route of flight, or congestion somewhere. If one sector has too many airplanes he may not be able to accept your aircraft, for instance going from Washington sector to New York. It will sound like this, "United 531, New York won't accept the handoff, hold at (such and such) fix, expect further clearance at (such and such a time)". It's best to ask the reason for the hold and expected time in hold, although you're lucky to get an answer since the controller is rather busy at this time trying to figure out what to do with all the extra airplanes he has. The runway may be closed due to a disabled aircraft on the runway and you will have to wait until the runway is cleared and reopened. Sometimes extra high winds aloft will create a situation at a destination airport where a lot of arrivals will conflict with the normal amount of departures, creating extra work loads with the approach sectors. On one occasion I was flying down to Fort Lauderdale from Washington the day after super bowl Sunday I believe, and the controller was holding inbound aircraft so that she could get a lot of the private jets airborne that had flooded the airport over the weekend. Of course I didn't have much extra fuel for this type of shenanigan, so I declared "minimum fuel" (which I was) which meant I couldn't take any extra delay and needed to continue with the approach and landing, otherwise I would be in an emergency fuel situation. At that point, the controller directed me to proceed to an alternate field. West Palm (PBI) was the closest airport so we landed there and waited a half hour or so and then flew over to FLL.

Another time I was flying from Miami to La Guardia NY during the summer with a lot of thunderstorms in the northeast. We found ourselves in a holding pattern over Baltimore, and, after about one hour of holding, landed at Baltimore to take on more fuel. I made an announcement that the passengers could get off the airplane to stretch their legs but to get back on the airplane fairly quickly since once we got our fuel there may not be much of a delay before we took off again. In fact our refueling took only about 20 minutes and we received a clearance with no more delay, so anouncements were made in the boarding area for everyone to get back on the plane immediately. We quickly made a passenger headcount, and realized that one person was missing. Well, after about 25 or so more minutes we still couldn't find the passenger, so I figured we had no choice but to leave and get everyone else up to La Guardia as it was getting rather late at this point. What I didn't know was that there was a hispanic elderly gentleman (from Cuba) who spoke no English and was making his first trip out of the country to see his family in New York. Since the flight was supposed to be non-stop, his instructions in Miami were that as soon as the plane landed he would be at his destination and he should get off the airplane and of course walk outside where he would meet his family. So when I landed in La Guardia and got off the airplane after all the passengers, there was a large crowd of not-so-happy family members wondering where this fellow was. With my uniform and everything and scrambled eggs on my cap, I was easily recognized as the Captain and immediately became the focus of the inquiring parties. Fortunately at that time my Spanish speaking abilities were lacking and I couldn't understand most of the words that the various interested folks were addressing me with, but I did get the idea and immediately inquired of our agents as to what had happened. Well, as good fortune would have it, the fellow in Baltimore was found around the ticket counter and rapidly directed to board the next flight to La Guardia, and actually arrived only a half hour after we did. Thank goodness!


Yes with the pattern that you have shown the shortened pattern indicates that the controller issued a clearance out of the pattern before the full pattern was completed, which is not uncommon.

Well I have run out of steam and time, so I hope that gives you a little of the inside scoop. And yes, I try to advise the passengers of exactly what is going on when we are in the hold. Especially if other aircraft are in the hold, when there is only 1000 feet altitude separation, which is standard, between holding aircraft, sometimes it looks rather close to a passenger looking out the window when they see a jumbo jet just below or just above them.

Thanks, Hutch :tiphat:

[Barb-SAN]

Thanks, Capt. Hutch for that fascinating post (and answers to all my questions! :D).

I've read recently about the airlines saving money by carrying less extra fuel...so can see that you'd prefer to have a departure delay rather than a holding pattern. That's something for us passengers to remember too if our flight is delayed (no complaints! ;)).

Since I'm not a very frequent commercial flier, I've only experienced holding patterns twice. Both were due to thunderstorms directly over the airports (Dallas & Cedar Rapids). We circled within view of the storms for 15-30 minutes until the storms had moved off to the east, and then had uneventful landings. In both cases the pilot did explain what he was doing and why (MUCH appreciated!). :thumbsup:


While ATC can give pilots a hold over any fix, there are some pre-planned holds for the standard approaches, like the one on the left side in http://flightaware.com/resources/air...IAP/LOC+RWY+27 (http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KSAN/IAP/LOC+RWY+27)

You might also be interested in the explanation here: http://airplanepilot.blogspot.com/2005/03/hold-timing_14.html

After reading the explanation on that blog, I can see why pilots are happy to program the holding pattern into the computer and let the autopilot fly it. Then, if not before, one pilot will insert the parameters into the computer and let the plane do its thing, noting with great anticipation that the airplane executes the proper direction for the initial turn. :D
I assume the flight management computer makes all the necessary corrections for wind encountered on the various legs of the holding pattern too?

Here's an example from that fog thread of a plane in the holding pattern out over the ocean that is illustrated in the linked approach plate http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KSAN/IAP/LOC+RWY+27 (though the actual pattern looks bigger than the one in the diagram).

http://www.takingflight.us/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2371&stc=1&d=1228116309