Pilotless Airplanes

[Barb-SAN]

Captain Hutch...what's your thought on the possibility that we may someday travel on planes without pilots? :eek: See attached article for photos and descriptions of what's already flying around up there without pilots.
http://www.barnstormers.com/eFLYER/2008/047-eFLYER-FA01-pilotless.html

[bellevueace]

A couple of years ago i saw a documentary on tv about aviation. Part of this showed an aircraft i think it was an airbus that had been fitted out to fly pilotless, im sure the experiment was done over paris, anyway on approach the aircraft totally lost control and crashed and ive never heard mention of pilotless aircraft since. Also on the same documentary was various footage of different incidents, one such incident which was filmed by an eyewitness on the ground showed an aircraft im sure it was an airbus again actually go out of control on approach, it was performing all sorts of manouvers a bit like an acrobatic display, eventually it seemed to regain control and land. The explanation was the autopilot had taken over from the pilot and wouldnt let him regain control, luckily he managed to regain control of the aircraft averting a disaster. I wonder if theres any backup generally in this case scenario?

[Barb-SAN]

The explanation was the autopilot had taken over from the pilot and wouldnt let him regain control, luckily he managed to regain control of the aircraft averting a disaster.
Well, we do have some precedent for this type of concern, from way back in 1968.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE1F7d6f1Qk&feature=related

On the other hand, in this thread, http://www.takingflight.us/forums/showthread.php?t=8588, see comments (towards the end of the thread) quoted from an Airbus pilot about landing in fog. When the visibility is too low, the plane can be landed by computer at an airport which is properly equipped to handle those types of landings.:thumbsup:

But still...I feel more comfortable knowing that the pilot is sitting up there "supervising the computers" in the cockpit. It's hard to imagine flying in a plane which is totally controlled by ground controllers. I also like the idea that the fate of the pilot and the passengers is the same. That provides a good incentive for pilot vigilence, competence, continuing education, physical fitness, etc.:D

[bellevueace]

Yes i much prefer a pilots hands on. Computers they say dont make mistakes, the humans that programme them do, thats what concerns me. If theres a mistake in the programming and the pilots then somehow locked out nothing much can be done.

[MathFox]

There is this story (urban legend?) about a professor teaching a software quality course asking his students how many of them would be willing to board a plane, knowing that they, as a team, had written the flight control software. Let's say that very few volunteered.

BTW, with what I know now of Software Quality Assurance (and the way that is done in aviation) I think I would even dare to be on the test flights.

[Captain Hutch]

Somewhere buried in these threads we discussed the pilotless issue before, and my feeling then was that we will never (okay, should I say "in our lifetime"?) have pilotless airliners. I still feel this way. Anytime you have a vehicle moving people, you should have a professional person in charge of that vehicle and within that vehicle. As I recall in one of those posts I mentioned that even when the airplane is making an autoland, my hands are on the controls throughout the procedure just in case there is a problem.

Hutch :tiphat:

[Barb-SAN]

Somewhere buried in these threads we discussed the pilotless issue before,
Ah, indeed, here it is, from June 2007 (good memory you have! ;)) http://www.takingflight.us/forums/showthread.php?t=7447

[Barb-SAN]

Just got another issue of Barnstormers, with more on pilotless airplanes, and some interesting photos of design ideas. Check out the microplane that fits in the palm of your hand. (Hmmm, your own personal spyplane? Always wanted to be that "fly on the wall"?)"Tiny nano structured UAV’s fly through towns, up staircases, down hallways, attach themselves to light fixtures and send video and voice half way around the world."
http://www.barnstormers.com/eFLYER/2009/049-eFLYER-FA01-computers.html

[Barb-SAN]

This article was linked in today's Aviation e-Brief: http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4139793&c=AIR&s=TOP

"The integration of manned and unmanned is happening faster than most people can imagine; the new aerospace age of the future is truly automation," Rockwell Collins Control Technologies senior director David Vos said June 15 at the Paris Air Show. "This e-book is a push to industry from the cultural perspective towards manned and unmanned integration."....

Vos said that when the aviation world moved from three-man to two-man crews, there was a major disruption across the industry. "Now it's time to think about getting to one and zero crews," he said.
At Balad airport in Iraq, he said, they are already doing that, integrating manned and unmanned aircraft in the same airspace every day...

The e-book will be updated with everything that is happening in the unmanned domain....

"We could try to keep this stuff under wraps until it is all perfect, but we then will face a culture that says we don't want it, so we have to build a culture of market acceptance," Vos said.

Oh...so it's all in the marketing to get us all to accept that it would be O.K. to have no pilot upfront flying the plane??? Seems a big leap from flying a UAV with food and medical supplies, to one with human cargo. Though...once upon a time, elevators were operated by trustworthy humans too...:rolleyes:

[Barb-SAN]

From today's Aviation e-Brief:
http://news.discovery.com/human/unmanned-aerial-vehicles-flight-school.html
The University of North Dakota is offering the world's first bachelor's degree for pilots who will never leave the ground.
These pilots are not afraid of flying. There is just less of a need to be airborne with the rapid growth of so-called unmanned aerial vehicles, or UAVs.
"College students like to be employable when they graduate," said Jeffrey Kappenman, director of the school's Unmanned Aircraft Center. "This market is a growing market."
A shift in military strategies is behind the explosive growth of UAVs, bolstering an industry which, by some estimates, will blossom to about $20 billion over the next decade.....

...The Federal Aviation Administration is working to integrate UAVs into the country's airspace, particularly as the agency transitions from radar-tracking systems in use today to the satellite-based Next Generation Air Transportation System under development.

Though I'll bet those pilots WILL want to experience REAL flight, and will learn quickly in an actual airplane.

[Captain Hutch]

Well, the purpose for the drive for unmanned aircraft by the military is to lessen the loss of life if something happens to that aircraft, either mechanically on it's own or if it gets shot down. So that in itself tells you the inherent distrust in putting passengers on board an aircraft such as one unmanned.

Hutch :)

[Barb-SAN]

From Ask The Pilot at Salon.com:
"The myth of the pilotless commercial plane: Make it stop!"
http://www.salon.com/technology/ask_the_pilot/2011/08/04/can_jetliners_fly_themselves/index.html