Home Again!

[WillFlyToDisney2]

Back home for a whopping 6 days before heading BACK to Nashville. All 4 flights were relatively smooth with some light chop and 1 or 2 bumpy landings. This trip more than any others just reinforced the whole "routineness" of flying. :airplane

When we were leaving ATL on the way to BNA (Nashville) the pilot came on the PA instead of the radio at one point so we heard him say "26 Left Position" as we were waiting our turn for the runway. That was the most eventful part of that flight!

My trip this time was twofold. The band had a show with Bret Michaels of Poison then I stayed over thru CMA Awards to help out with the jeweler who provided $57 million in jewels for the stars to wear to the show. Because of the jewelry we had armed escorts with us at all times. Turns out that our main security guy is a GA Pilot and his Dad is a Captain for USAir. We had alot of great conversations about flying and he invited me to go up with him in a single engine plane when I get back to town. Hmmm..... I am actually considering it!!

Fly back to Nashville on Tuesday thru ATL (where I will miss Ken by about 3 hours) for 6 days then back home for 3 weeks.

Sorry I havent been around the board much lately but this trip was CRAZY busy!

If anyone wants to see pix from CMAs let me know and I can email you the link.

Kelley

[MadScientist]

Glad you're back Kelley and had good flights.

I was told recently by another frequent flier that he was on a Delta flight recently. He said they had started their approach into ATL and the pilot came on to give the usual information about weather and so on. "Ladies and gentlemen, we're beginning our descent into......OH JESUS!" Then there was silence. The pilot then came on a few seconds later and was trying to conceal his laughter when he apologized and said a balloon just whizzed by the cockpit and it scared him. :wired

[Huey]

Now THAT would have been hysterical! I can imagine turning around (looking back from First Class, of course) and seeing

:mg :mg :mg :mg :mg :mg
:mg :mg :mg :mg :mg :mg
:mg :mg :mg :mg :mg :mg
:mg :mg :mg :mg :mg :mg
:mg :mg :mg :mg :mg :mg
:mg :mg :mg :mg :mg :mg
:mg :mg :mg :mg :mg :mg
:mg :mg :mg :mg :mg :mg
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:mg :mg :mg :mg :mg :mg
:mg :mg :mg :mg :mg :mg
:mg :mg :mg :mg :mg :mg

[spleisher]

Kelley,

FYI.. What you most likely heard was the pilot acknowledging a "Position and Hold" instruction from the tower.

Basically what that means is this: The tower clears the aircraft onto the runway but bas not given them the permission to take off. The aircraft is told to take "position and hold", which means to take the active runway, get ready to take off, but do not start your takeoff roll. In all likelihood, there was cossing traffic that had not yet cleared the runway. I've done it about five thousand times. It usually goes something like this:

Tower: "Southwest 123, Runway 26 Left, position and hold"

Pilot: "26 Left, Position and Hold, Soutwest 123"

Typical pilot stuff, but pretty cool nonetheless.

This is why when you hear the "ding" on the ground and the flight attendants tell you that you have been cleared for departure, it is rarely the case that you have actually been cleared for takeoff... but now I'm splitting hairs....

Take it easy,
Scott

[Huey]

"Position and hold" is "pretty cool"?

You must get really amped up when flight following is approved :)

[spleisher]

Pretty cool for the non-pilot type... allow me to clarify... As for flight following, nothing in aviation is more exciting!!! :wired

[Huey]

I dunno. I about soil my drawers when frequency change is approved, and I'm now allowed to squawk VFR.

:spot

[spleisher]

What about being cleared for the ADIZ!?!?!? No that's thrilling!

[spleisher]

Man, if people read this, they will be like "Man, that's boring" If only they could see the ROUTINE involved in it all.

[xiknal]

...being told, at first call-up inbound, "remain outside Class C".
Then, because they are busy, they forget about you... :yawn

[lieberma]

You hear air traffic control say "cleared to land 16 Right".

Everybody takes notice, the tower, the passenger(s), the landing judges sitting ramp side, the pilot him/herself.

Ahh, the magic of flying Visual Flight Rules (VFR).

OR

You hear air traffic control say, "cleared to land 16 right", you are descending, its white outside, nothing but you and the plane inside a big ole cloud, watching the instruments, doing everything you can to keep the instruments that point you to the runway centered, putting your faith in needles within the instruments, your descending, altitude dropping 500 feet per minute and lo and behold, the windscreen darkens up, you look up, and son of a gun, the runway is in front of you.

Ahh, the magic of Instrument Flight Rule (IFR) flying!

Allen

[Passenger Mark]

Awwww....

Great to have you back! You were missed around here!

I have wondered if a pilot ever made the mistake and talked on the PA instead of the radio! Now I know! ha ha


AND HUEY!!!!

Great to have you back as well!

[WillFlyToDisney2]

Okay here is a question - how do you KNOW or more importantly does the PLANE know how to line up with that specific runway? I am assuming there is some type of heading or setting you type in the computer but can someone explain how that works exactly?

THANKS! And it is good to be home for a few days. Went on a field trip this AM with my youngest Daughter to Outback Steakhouse (nothing like FREE STEAK to make up for having to ride on the school bus).

Kelley

[Huey]

" ...being told, at first call-up inbound, "remain outside Class C".
Then, because they are busy, they forget about you... :yawn "


Huh. I've never heard of a requirement to have clearance to enter class Charlie airspace. The only requirement is an altitude encoding transponder and 2 way radio communications established with ATC prior to entry. I'm sure if they want you to stay out, going in won't earn you friends, but I don't think it would be considered a "bust" if you flew in without "permission".


Kelly: It's called ILS or Instrument Landing System. A radio frequency is dialed into a nav radio, and depending on the complexity of the system, various types of visual cues that get you to a minimum decision altitude, at which you either have a visual on the runway or you declare missed and go around.

There are various types of GPS, non-precision, and ground controlled approaches that will do as well.

[WillFlyToDisney2]

Thanks, Huey. Every time I fly into ATL I wonder HOW the plane got to the exact runway when there are so many right beside each other.

:)
Kelley

[xiknal]

Huey, it would be a bust. If they say "remain outside Class C" and you come in anyway, they'd take a dim view of that, and depending on how you capitulate to the chewing-out you'd get, you might have to call the tower when you land and really get an ear-blistering. :cuss

What follows the request to stay out is that they call you again (don't call us; we'll call you! :) ) and give you a squawk code so you can come in. Meanwhile, you really do have to stay out.

You are right about not needing a specific clearance to enter Class C as you do with Class B. You need to establish 2-way radio comm, and (unless they say "stay out") you can proceed inbound even if they haven't yet assigned you your transponder code. They'll usually say "Cessna XYZ stand by for squawk"...and it's fine to come in at that point, because they'll soon issue the squawk and often request an ident.

This sort of thing happens at "rush hour", and when they are really busy, they can get quite testy (certain controllers especially) if we tick them off. And then, because we are based there and they vector us all the time, they are rumored to remember, and (unofficially) give less favorable sequencing in the future. I have worked hard to get good sequencing...don't want to blow it. :angel

By the way, about a year ago one of my students, unhappy with his vectors, got testy in reply to ATC...and a whole bunch of people heard it, and it was a big item in local FBO gossip for at least a week. Quite embarrassing for both of us...:blush especially since my student at first denied it.

[Huey]

Kel, the next time you visit a cockpit, ask the pilots if they'll show you the approach plate for the destination airport.

You can see the altitude they need to be at (usually) when crossing the final approach fix, etc. A typical command from ATC would be something along the lines of: "Delta 812, turn right heading 310, descend and maintain two thousand eight hundred until established on the localizer. Contact Atlanta Tower on ______." They will have been told which runway to expect well before this handoff, and one of the crew will have reviewed the approach plate and will brief the other pilot.

[xiknal]

...Kel, you can go to your local airport and ask for a set of approach plates for your area (they're cheap!)--you have a choice of NOS or Jepp and it doesn't matter, and then you can study the ILS approaches for different runways and really understand the precision involved. Ideally, you can find a pilot to walk you through it, 'cause at first those things look like secret maps to some other galaxy. 0] As Huey mentioned, each runway's approach has its own radio frequency (so that there'll never be any mistake made so long as the correct freq is dialed in). Then, when you ask your pilot to show you the approach plate for your destination airport, it will really make sense. Heh, you can even get one ahead of time and follow along...your seatmates will be so impressed! :happyguy

[Huey]

I can see how you'd get chewed for ignoring ATC in that case, but you've met the requirements for entry into class charlie. Even without a new squawk code, you're still reporting altitude, and if they say your callsign, you've established 2 way comm. Busting into class bravo is a big deal, since it is specifically called out in the FARs that thou shalt not.

Oh well.

[Huey]

I'd be careful about taking too many aids to navigation onboard these days.


LOL

[WillFlyToDisney2]

I would love to learn about it out of curiousity but I dont think I would take anythink suspect on the plane. I am already "flagged" when I fly American as it is and get the "just shy of a body cavity" search when going thru TSA.

Thanks for the explanation, guys! I'll have to check out the cockpit on my flight Tuesday and ask about that. :)

Kelley

[beaugest]

You know, the next time someone complains to me about all the shorthand lingo in psychology I'm waving this post in their face. It was like reading a different language. And what was exciting for me was when I understood it(or parts of it). I think it will be quite awhile till I get to the excitement when it happens part. I do get excited when we land though. Does that count? I do the "Yay. My @#%$ feet are on solid ground dance...:"dancers :kneeslap :spot
Huey, I missed your explanations. You have a nice way of making the difficult to understand ---easy to understand. and then of course, there's that way with one liners...:tiphat

[xiknal]

Their usual way of dodging two-way radio comm in such a situation is to say "aircraft calling Austin stand by and remain outside Class C", but sometimes they will say your tail number and then issue the no-no. In any case, if they say stay out, I stay out.:(

[Huey]

Not me. I live on the edge. Screw 'em. I'm a taxpayer.




Thanks beaugest!