Help needed!

[smiths7]

Well, first let me say that I have been a member for awhile now, mostly just reading posts and whatnot. I became a member 2 years ago when I walked away from a free trip to the bahamas with my then boyfriend.

Anyways, my concerns with flying stem from claustrophobia(hate elevators) and control issues. I only flew once on a 2 hour flight which there was great, home was fine except the pilot said we would hit turbulence, which we didn't but I was white knuckled the whole way.

I never flew as a kid because my Mom will not fly (she went through a hurricane, foam landing, people having heart attacks).

I have done so many different things to get over this fear and I still have not. I have seen about 5 different therapists, read countless books, listened to many online programs and meditation/hypnosis audio tracks.

I am getting married on August 1st of 2009 and I really want to be able to fly for my honeymoon. I do not want to be restricted to where I can go because if this irrational fear.

Another big concern for me is if I can get enough courage up to get on the plan (can't right now) what happens if I can can't get myself back on it?

Any thoughts are appreciated!
Thanks!

[smiths7]

Here is a thought I was just pondering after looking around...

Could it be that I have all the resources I need from the therapists, book and audio tracks but I do not realize that I am ready to attempt to fly? I wonder, obviously if I never book a flight because I keep saying I just can't do it, how will I ever know if I can or if all the techniques I have learned actually work?

But...I feel like if I book a flight I will just cancel again, I mean how do I know when I will actually book it and follow through?

[aerobat]

Hi, Samantha,

I certainly remember you! And I just did a quick review of your previous posts.

I would like to ask you this:
have you ever been in a situation (unrelated to flying) where you've been scared of something, and put off facing it, but eventually you faced it? And were very glad you did?

You are in a classic dilemma for fearful fliers. If it's any comfort, I can see exactly where you are stuck. :)

My intuition is that you should book a practice flight. If you do this on Southwest on a regular fare, it is refundable or transferable.

But... any priority or concern you concede to the possibility of (1) losing money or (2) bailing from the flight or (3) being stuck at the other end will become the Big Obstacle on your path, as these have before. You have let these concerns stand in your way, so until you can put them aside (pragmatically), you probably won't get on the plane. :(

Can you tell us what things from your therapy and your reading seem most helpful--that is, give you moments (hours? days?) of hope or relief? Can you tell us what from all this is actual practice--exercises that you have undertaken as opposed to just thinking about things?

It's true that until you book a flight, it's hard to generate the anxiety needed to test the effectiveness of your knowledge and resources. So to begin to answer your other question ("am I ready and just don't know it?") you will need to book the flight.

So, why not go back and take a hard look at those three things above that are keeping you from booking, and consider giving them the boot. The advantage of a practice flight is that it removes the flying from all other commitments and expectations--yours and others'--and lets you dedicate the flight to yourself and your work on your fear. That can be very empowering; it is a way of putting your hero's hat on.

You might be amazed at how it feels to have that hat on. That's why I asked whether you have worn it before. If so, it's time to rally your own resources from memory. :thumbsup:

[smiths7]

Thanks for your reply.

I have tried to instill some of the practices into my daily life. I find the meditation CD to be the most helpful, but I question the reliability when I am actually in an anxious state. They work wonders for my day to day stress and really relax me, but I am no sure how they would do against my anxiety.

A practice flight is something I have thought about...any advice on how long the first flight should be?

And yes, I have wore the hero hat before when I flew for the first time from VA to FL. But like I said, on my return flight it was not such a great feeling as it was getting there.

[aerobat]

I have tried to instill some of the practices into my daily life. I find the meditation CD to be the most helpful, but I question the reliability when I am actually in an anxious state. They work wonders for my day to day stress and really relax me, but I am no sure how they would do against my anxiety.

There's no way to know until you test it. But it's worth some trust. Still, the test has to be valid, and that's why booking is important.


A practice flight is something I have thought about...any advice on how long the first flight should be?

Something in the 200-mile range would be good--to a city where there are enough regular flights there and back that you can easily do the round trip in one day. The chances are very good that you'll be able to get right back on the return flight with no problem.

And yes, I have wore the hero hat before when I flew for the first time from VA to FL. But like I said, on my return flight it was not such a great feeling as it was getting there.

That's because you had been told there might be turbulence? That's the reason, isn't it? And you were primed to be frightened of turbulence by your mother's horror story so you went into anticipatory fear.

For no good reason. :)
Even if there had been turbulence, there is no good reason to fear it, any more than fearing a bumpy road or a choppy lake.

In your experience with therapy, have you gotten a solid anxiety education?

It would help if you understood clearly what happened to you on that (uneventful) return flight, and also how your negative expectations (acquired from your mother) set you up to expect the worst. It's the memory of that flight (where the horror was all in your imagination) which is firing your adrenaline now.

Please have a look at this thread

http://www.takingflight.us/forums/showthread.php?t=8482 (http://www.takingflight.us/forums/showthread.php?t=8482)

I pasted in a desensitization scenario there called 'The Bad Movie DVD Player'. Have you been given anything like this by any of your therapists?

It is important to address the specific triggers which set you off. For you, it will be memories and images from your mother as well as "bad movies" from that return flight. In my view, it is this sort of work which is most effective. And it has the added benefit of showing us right away that it's working.

[aerobat]

Anyways, my concerns with flying stem from claustrophobia(hate elevators) and control issues. I only flew once on a 2 hour flight which there was great, home was fine except the pilot said we would hit turbulence, which we didn't but I was white knuckled the whole way.

Samantha, you know what?
Elevators, that's what!!! :)

Teach yourself not to hate them. Use them for all they are worth in order to determine which of your current tools and resources are most effective in reducing your anxiety. Then use those techniques until you can take control of your claustrophobia in elevators.

Then do a practice flight.

[smiths7]

I will take a look at the thread and see what happens. Thanks for all the advice.

As far as the elevators, that is what most of my therapists have told me to do, it never was successful. I did travel to Las Vegas in Jan (on amtrak...what a mess) and I was on the 34th floor which forced me to ride the elevator everyday, but even with that I still do not feel comfortable about getting on one. At most it lessened my fear by a half a point.

[Barb-SAN]

As far as the elevators, that is what most of my therapists have told me to do, it never was successful. I did travel to Las Vegas in Jan (on amtrak...what a mess) and I was on the 34th floor which forced me to ride the elevator everyday, but even with that I still do not feel comfortable about getting on one. At most it lessened my fear by a half a point.
Well, if your therapists said to do it, and it DID lessen your fear by half a point...;)...seems like there's your answer. You've found something that makes you anxious, and you had a teeny bit of success in lessening your fear. What technique did you use that helped?

My suggestion would be to find an elevator where you live, and ride that sucker until it no longer causes any sort of an anxiety reaction at all. (And I'm speaking from direct experience here...:cool:).

One success builds upon another. Once you see that your anxiety-reducing technique works, you will be able to transfer that to flying, and have confidence that you can calm yourself down. I found breathing techniques to work most quickly for me. Others use thought-stopping techniques, snapping a rubber band on their wrist, muscle relaxation, affirmations ("I can do this"), etc.

[aerobat]

I will second what Barb-SAN said.

I would add that if your tools and strategies missed the mark on elevators, or made a disappointingly small difference, then there's something in the setting or the method that needs adjustment. Please don't fall back into thinking there's something special about your fear.

But it does take practice!! For some people, lots of practice. And it's not simply about riding the elevator and praying or wishing the fear away, but about consciously desensitizing to and accepting all the individual triggers--the noises, the smells, the sounds of the cables and the doors, the press when there are lots of people. And of course the imagined scenes of being stuck. Each stimulus should be identified and "run out". A good anxiety therapist will know exactly how to do it. A creative therapist would ride the thing with you.

Were/are any of your therapists nuts-and-bolts anxiety specialists?

If you can beat the fear on the elevator, your success will carry right on over to the plane. :thumbsup:

[smiths7]

Well, the therapist never really helped me with the Vegas elevator, that was just no choice for me because if I wanted to go to sleep I had to get on the elevator as the stairs were only for emergencies and we were on the 34th floor.

The ideas that the therapists told me were to first just hold the door open while standing inside and do that until I have no fear then there was a gradual stepping process to overcoming it of course ending with staying in the elevator by myself for some amount of time.

I should say that when I first started this my original therapist kind of added to the problem. My task was to go and stay in the elevator for 5 minutes. I went in the elevator, let the doors shut and began getting very anxious. I stayed in about 40 seconds and then the elevator just dropped (I did not know there was a basement floor in the building) therefore my mind thought "OH NO!". Anyways, nothing happened it was just someone trying to used the elevator from the basement but it really set me back in the task. After that the only time I could get myself near the elevator was when I have no choice in Vegas.

[Kimmar]

Funny thing is I don't like elevators either. (I'm now working on that, since my fear of flying is becoming a thing of the past).

I think the elevator fear has to do (for me) with the idea of "hanging by a thread"...That was my fear on planes and I didn't even really know it until this year. I thought it was turb, but the fear of turb was the fear that it would knock the airplane off the imaginary "thread" I thought was holding it up in the air...

Dumb, I know, but a very real, disabling fear that kept me off airplanes for over 25 years. I have another thread on here that we discuss this, and it changed my flying life. I've since flown 11 times this year, and am flying to NYC in November and am not the least bit concerned about it now.

I too took a "practice" flight, in a very small 4 seater plane, and that first flight was *soooooo* hard for me to get onto.

I had to come to realize that I *was* going to be afraid but I was going to do it anyway. I was sick and tired of being afraid! (And avoiding flying was not making flying any easier, so something else had to be done instead...Taking it head on. ) When I tell my story, I say that walking to that airplane the first time was like a "death march", because I was *terrified*....

But I managed to do it, (I wrote notes on my hands to remind me to breath! LOL) and each flight got a little bit better, until finally on the last flight I did I was what I would consider a nearly normal flyer! My anxiety is now greater when I ride down the road on the back of my dh's Harley!

Now I guess I have to find a "fear of elevators" forum, and take on that monster...LOL:magic:

[Barb-SAN]

Funny thing is I don't like elevators either. (I'm now working on that, since my fear of flying is becoming a thing of the past).

I think the elevator fear has to do (for me) with the idea of "hanging by a thread"......
Now I guess I have to find a "fear of elevators" forum, and take on that monster...LOL:magic:
I developed an issue with elevators too, at the same time I developed fear of flying. Not really sure why, but I'm more or less O.K. with them now. They can feel claustrophobic when they are packed with people. The occasional story in the news of people being trapped in them due to loss of electricity may be one reason I sometimes feel uneasy. I sometimes wonder...what if there's an earthquake when I'm in one? Just like flying...there's no 100% guarantee that there won't be a problem when riding in an elevator. But, the odds are very much in your favor. The ride is quick, and I don't have occasion to be in one very often.

I found this website that explains how elevators work (TF's ground school for elevators... ;))http://www.howstuffworks.com/elevator.htm
There's even an illustrated diagram (moving) showing how a "roped elevator" works. Safety Systems
In the world of Hollywood action movies, hoist ropes are never far from snapping in two, sending the car and its passengers hurdling down the shaft. In actuality, there is very little chance of this happening. Elevators are built with several redundant safety systems that keep them in position.

The first line of defense is the rope system itself. Each elevator rope is made from several lengths of steel material wound around one another. With this sturdy structure, one rope can support the weight of the elevator car and the counterweight on its own. But elevators are built with multiple ropes (between four and eight, typically). In the unlikely event that one of the ropes snaps, the rest will hold the elevator up. Even if all of the ropes were to break, or the sheave system were to release them, it is unlikely that an elevator car would fall to the bottom of the shaft. Roped elevator cars have built-in braking systems, or safeties, that grab onto the rail when the car moves too fast.

[Barb-SAN]

I should say that when I first started this my original therapist kind of added to the problem. My task was to go and stay in the elevator for 5 minutes. I went in the elevator, let the doors shut and began getting very anxious. I stayed in about 40 seconds and then the elevator just dropped (I did not know there was a basement floor in the building) therefore my mind thought "OH NO!". Anyways, nothing happened it was just someone trying to used the elevator from the basement but it really set me back in the task. After that the only time I could get myself near the elevator was when I have no choice in Vegas.

Isn't that sometimes what happens in scary movies? A woman gets on an elevator alone, and presses the button to go UP. But, there's a creepy guy waiting for her in the basement, who presses the button for the elevator, and she's helpless as the elevator drops to the basement? Sometimes these movie images get filed away, and we don't even realize that we have a story line in our brains telling us we've seen this scenario before, and there's trouble ahead (even though it was "just a movie".)

[aerobat]

The ideas that the therapists told me were to first just hold the door open while standing inside and do that until I have no fear then there was a gradual stepping process to overcoming it of course ending with staying in the elevator by myself for some amount of time.

Were you given any on-the-spot techniques for managing the anxiety that came up on the elevator? It's guaranteed to come up, and that's OK. In fact, it's necessary (so you can desensitize), so long as we can keep it from becoming too strong (which is what happened to you due to your surprise :eek: ride to the basement).


After that the only time I could get myself near the elevator was when I have no choice in Vegas.

So it sounds like the anxiety really gotcha. It's a setback, all right, but by no means the end of the game. :fuming: You know what they say about "when the going gets tough" ?

Obviously you were able to find the courage to ride the thing in Vegas, but you need tools and strategies to overcome this fear. It's good that you could tough it out--it's what we call "necessary but not sufficient". This is not the way you want to tackle a fear of flying, where you are committed to the ride for an hour, or hours. You want to go into that better prepared.

Elevators are the perfect containment scenario to work on your fears and your techniques (but you need kick-butt, effective techniques, and not just meditation tapes). I am not going to be a pollyanna about this and tell you to just go back there on your own. I feel you should do this with the support of an expert, and if that means finding a new therapist (anxiety specialist), then do it. With the right support, the right work does not take long to produce results.

:nod:

[smiths7]

Aerobat,

I agree 100% that my main problem is that I do not have the neccessary teachniques to deal with the fear and anxiety while I am in the situation. The only techniques I were given was some breathing stuff and some battle scenarios which the therapist said is like you battle your negative thoughts and try to make them seem unrelaible. I knew both of these scenarios when I had the experience in the elevator. I feel that these techniques work okay when i am somewhat stressed or anxious (like walking down to the elvator) but once I am in the elevator I am too nervous to even remember to do anything but freak out!

[Barb-SAN]

but once I am in the elevator I am too nervous to even remember to do anything but freak out!

Could you describe what exactly you do when you "freak out"?

[smiths7]

Freaking out= dizziness, nausea, sweating, heart rate increase, blood pressure through the roof which leads me to get off the elevator or not get on in the first place.

[aerobat]

The only techniques I were given was some breathing stuff and some battle scenarios which the therapist said is like you battle your negative thoughts and try to make them seem unrelaible.

Breathing techniques are pretty straightforward, and can be helpful on the physiological side. But the 'imagination' side is just as important, or even moreso (and it has physiological results).

Can you describe in detail this 'battle scenario' strategy?
Does it involve antidote images or antidote thoughts? Please give us a clear example of this.

For many people, it is necessary to have an arsenal of techniques, and to know when to use which one and especially, how to sequence them so that the right tool is chosen for the immediate task.

This usually requires a good anxiety education. Do you feel you've acquired a good anxiety education? :confused:

[smiths7]

I think I have a pretty good anxiety education, between reading so many things and going to so many different psychologists.

The battle scenario was just to play lawyer basically and when a negative thought came into my mind I was suppose to argue it with the reasons it was useless and invalid.

[Barb-SAN]

I think I have a pretty good anxiety education, between reading so many things and going to so many different psychologists.Now the question is...having a good "education"...have you done many actual exercises in "the real world" to confront your fears? That's the next step, after the education...to start practicing what you've learned. Keep a journal, do something every day that scares you, even a little, and practice your tools to calm down. Note what works in your journal, try different things, see how YOU respond. :thumbsup: (Did your therapists have you do this "homework" as part of your therapy?)

[smiths7]

He did want me to write down when I did the "battle scenario" but it didn't provide any good feedback.

When you say I should do something everyday to scare me and try to calm myself down, what would you suggest?

I mean riding the elevator does not seem like a good place to start as it is a higher lever fear...?

[Barb-SAN]

When you say I should do something everyday to scare me and try to calm myself down, what would you suggest?

I mean riding the elevator does not seem like a good place to start as it is a higher lever fear...?

Well, I don't know else what scares you...so you'd need to look around your life, and think about that.

Using the fear of elevators as an example though...you could construct a "hierarchy" of steps to confront that fear. Start with something easy, (and essentially "imaginary"), and work up to what is more challenging (actually riding the elevator).

1.) Look at "How elevators work" that I linked further up the page. http://science.howstuffworks.com/elevator3.htm
Print out all that information, and put it in your notebook. See if it scares you to watch the animated diagram of the elevator moving up and down on the web page. Write out your feelings in your journal. If you feel scared, challenge your thoughts like your therapist instructed. Write down what you are thinking, and what "tools" you use to get calm again.

Report back here after doing step one, and let us know how you did, and see if you have any ideas for what to do next. :)