Fear Of Take-off

[cjpcmp]

I have a fear of take-off. I am afraid that we are going to start falling back down during the climb. Can the plane actually fall back down during climbing? If the pilot does not get enough speed will they still get off the ground and then fall back down suddenly, or will they not even be able to take off at all? Can someone tell me if a plane can go back down backwards during the climb after takeoff? The reason why I am asking this is because it always feels like the plane is dropping to me during takeoff. It seems like we are going back down sometimes, even though we really are not. Also, when taking off what are the reasons for a crash to occur? I know that takeoff and landing are the most dangerous parts, so what makes these parts of flying so dangerous? Please let me know the answers to my questions. Thank you very much

Sincerely Crystal

[MathFox]

During a normal take off the plane more or less starts flying by itself: it gets enough speed for the lift of the wings to beat gravity. The main task of the pilots is to keep an eye on the equipment and maintain reasonable climb rate and air speed.
(There is some basic physics involved: pilots can trade speed for altitude or slow the engines earlier for a slower climb.)
Pilots are trained to abort take off when the plane does not accelerate fast enough... Bad aborts blow tires and seriously hurt the plane's brakes, but rarely people get seriously hurt.

The biggest danger with take-off and landing is that there are lots of hard objects close by... planes, other vehicles, trees, rocks, buildings and the earth itself. Planes fly nicely, but are not made to hit obstacles at flying speeds. A landing is a balancing act in touching the earth softly enough and then brake hard enough to lose speed. Similarly, you don't want to hit an obstacle when your plane is doing 100mph on take off.
Pilots, ATC and everyone else in professional aviation are well aware of that and try to keep active runways free for the planes. There are more than a thousand take offs every hour; nearly all of them without incidents. Changing lanes on a highway could be more dangerous. What you feel like the plane "falling back" would be the acceleration of the plane after take off. (The plane both gains speed and altitude in the first minutes.)

[tusphotog]

I am afraid that we are going to start falling back down during the climb. Can the plane actually fall back down during climbing? If the pilot does not get enough speed will they still get off the ground and then fall back down suddenly, or will they not even be able to take off at all? Can someone tell me if a plane can go back down backwards during the climb after takeoff? The reason why I am asking this is because it always feels like the plane is dropping to me during takeoff. It seems like we are going back down sometimes, even though we really are not. Also, when taking off what are the reasons for a crash to occur? I know that takeoff and landing are the most dangerous parts, so what makes these parts of flying so dangerous? Please let me know the answers to my questions.

So many questions! The short answer is, no, the plane will not suddenly "fall out of the sky." As long as there is forward energy (i.e. speed), physics and aerodynamics state that the plane will continue going forward. It's impossible for a plane to "fall backwards."

As for takeoff and landing being the "critical" stages of flight, that has to do with the proximity to the ground. If the plane doesn't get enough speed, the wings wont generate lift. Without lift, the plane won't fly. That's why takeoff speeds give you plenty of a buffer between the stall speed (point at which the wings don't generate lift) and liftoff speed.

[cjpcmp]

Thanks everyone who have responded. All this plane language is a little bit confusing to me lol, but I did get from it that a plane cannot go backwards and fall back down during takeoff, thankfully:). Okay I have some more questions, sorry lol :rolleyes:. If the plane does not get enough speed, but the pilots do not abort the take-off before starting the climb, then can they still land safely without crashing? I know that I am asking so many questions, but I do appreciate if someone could give me more of explanation of how a crash can occur during take-off. If anyone has the time to answer these few more questions, I would really appreciate it. Thank You for your help in advance.

Sincerely Crystal ;)

[MathFox]

If the plane does not get enough speed, but the pilots do not abort the take-off before starting the climb, then can they still land safely without crashing?

I can tell you that both pilots watch the speed during the take off roll. They have computed the essential speeds and at what runway distance they should be at what speed. It is a basic drill for professional pilots to check speeds and abort take off whenever they have doubts. They have homes and families they want to return to safely.
All airliners can climb, fly back and land with one engine off, on the remaining engine(s). Emergency crew will be observing the landing, but in most cases the plane will be able to taxi back to the gate.

If you are in a single engine plane and your engine fails during early climb, you'll have to land. If you're lucky there is enough runway left in front of you to land. If you have enough altitude you can turn 180 degrees and land back at the airport. Good pilots have reviewed spots for emergency landings before they enter the runway.

[AZ_to_AU]

I think cjp is asking HOW a plane can crash during take-off, not what the preventative measures are.

I'm only guessing....but perhaps not enough runway to land back down and the plane "hits" something, or it's forced to use a grassy area to land on or whatever land mass is closest to the runway area. Landing way too hard and a tire blows.... stuff like that??

[tusphotog]

I'm only guessing....but perhaps not enough runway to land back down and the plane "hits" something, or it's forced to use a grassy area to land on or whatever land mass is closest to the runway area. Landing way too hard and a tire blows.... stuff like that??

Unless it's a Cessna or other similar small GA aircraft, once you're in the air, you ain't coming back down on the same runway--unless you go around in the pattern and land at the start of that runway.

Tire blow outs are more common than you might think. They make an absolute mess on the runway, but that's pretty much it. Hard landings usually don't cause the tires to blow--just watch video of aircraft carrier landings. There are some technical explanations as to what causes tire blow outs, but those are better served in another thread.

[spiffyone]

I think it's also helpful to think about WHY your body reacts that way during takeoff - it is also my least favorite part of the flight and I think some of it is that I find it hard to adjust to the sensations, and I don't fly that often, so it's always a little bit of a job to do so. The angle of climb usually feels more than it is. To me it feels sometimes like we are going up the up side of a roller coaster. I feel like I'm going to slide back out of my seat and fall all the way to the back of the plane! But I think a lot of that is your inner ear, brain, whatever, reacting to the G force of takeoff. So when you start to feel that way and feel panicky, it can be helpful to tell yourself that these feelings are normal, your body just has to adjust, but it doesn't mean anything is wrong with the flight.

[MathFox]

First the statistics: (source: http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/stats.htm )
Of every million scheduled flights on US airlines, 999 996.64 land without accident. That means that if you take two scheduled airline flights on a US airline every day, you should expect to be in an accident plane once every 400 years. Only about one in 20 accidents has fatalities, so you are very likely to survive the incident.

Knowing that, we can look at the rare cases where things go wrong during take off, and look at the major categories:

hitting an obstacle
losing control of the plane
lack of speed
structural failure of the plane
structural failure of the runway
explosionIn most accidents you'll see multiple problems combined, thanks to redundancy in plane design it requires more than one failure to create an accident.

Hitting an obstacle at high speed usually is a bad idea, that is why they try to keep runways (and a safety zone around the runway) clear of them. When a plane hits something on the runway, it is most likely to be a vehicle; but large animals can be a problem too. When the plane gets off the runway it may hit buildings, (airport) fences, trees, etc. Survivability depends on the force of the impact.
Pilots may lose control of the plane, either by human error, something that breaks in the plane or under influence of the weather. At high speeds, especially when the plane just started flying things can get nasty. A plane skidding of the runway at low speed will only receive minor damage.
Lack of speed to get proper lift off is usually caused by human error; the plane is too heavy for the available runway length. Most likely result is a high speed crash into objects beyond the runway end.
Structural failures (collapses) in planes and runways are rare and mentioned for completeness. Explosions are rare too and mostly caused by terrorists. Survival rates near the ground are pretty high.

[cjpcmp]

Okay besides this quote: Lack of speed to get proper lift off is usually caused by human error; the plane is too heavy for the available runway length. Most likely result is a high speed crash into objects beyond the runway end.

What are some other reasons that can cause a plane to crash during take-off and/or the climb? :confused:

[AZ_to_AU]

The one thing that concerns me about your wanting some examples only makes me wonder if you'll have those bad thoughts in the back of your head during take-off. Wouldn't it be nicer NOT knowing the different scenarios? I would!

I read another thread about Clear Air Turbulence and now I'm stuck with that in the back of my head and wish I had never read that thread. :(

Sometimes doing stuff like flying, I think it's better when you don't know the "risks" involved.

[CAflyer]

I feel the same way, the more I want to know the more I know I will be scared in the long run. Ignorance is bliss in some cases but it also nice to know what is normal so you don't freak if it happens, like normal turbulence.

[MathFox]

What are some other reasons that can cause a plane to crash during take-off and/or the climb? :confused:

If you ask me what can (in theory) go wrong, the answer is "lots and lots of things" but most of them are totally irrelevant in practice because they happen less than once in a million years, even with tens of millions take-offs per year.
Quantum theory allows atoms to "tunnel", spontaneously jump from A->B. Someone theorised that all the iron atoms in a wagon wheel could decide to jump at the same time, effectively derailing a train.
A real quantum physicist computed the probability of such an event an found out that it was less than one in a billion billion years, if you had a billion trains.
If you look at accident statistics you can see the relevant issues:

human error
technical failures
external influences (weather, animals, ice)
sabotage, criminal and terrorist actsThe first three are most relevant, sabotage is less than 2%. When you read the statistics you should realise that there is an difference between accident and crash. A bird strike (plane hitting a bird in flight) can damage a plane, so it is registered as an accident. Generally the plane will be able to land normally after the strike, so it is not a crash.
Back to your question: what do we see in take-off and climb accident statistics? Hitting an object that should not be on the runway (human error). Bird strikes. Loss of (power in) one engine is recoverable and will not show up in the accident statistics (unless the engine is damaged by a bird or other "foreign object"). Some events where the pilot lost control over the plane at low altitude (various causes.)
All less than one in a million events, but taken seriously by investigation teams.

[Captain Hutch]

Hi Crystal,

I'll try to alleviate some of your fears with some very basics of airline flying. The speed at which the pilot decides whether to continue the takeoff or reject the takeoff and stop is called V1, or "go-no-go" speed, or decision speed. Below this speed, the pilot can reject the takeoff and stop in the remaining runway. Above this speed, the aircraft can have a complete engine failure and still safely takeoff and climb to a safe altitude--Federal [United States] Aviation Regulations. This speed is predicated on, among other things, the final weight of the aircraft, and thus is not finally calculated until all passengers and baggage are on the aircraft. So you can be assured that, since V1 speed occurs slightly prior to nose lift off, that once the pilot raises the nose of the aircraft on takeoff roll that the aircraft will safely fly. As I have stated in other threads, we practice engine failures on takeoff in every simulator session, at least once per year. In over 36 years and about 25,000 hours of flying I have had two engine failures, both about 10 minutes after takeoff. In both cases, we made a routine single engine landing--I say routine because once we performed the checklist for the particular problem, we followed the standard procedures for a single-engine landing and landed safely.

The engines on our 737 are powerful, and often we will use a reduced thrust for takeoff, still meeting all of the criteria that I described above. In these cases, in the event of an engine failure we can increase the thrust on the operable engine if required.

The steep climb immediately after takeoff is necessary to gain as much altitude as possible in the event of an engine failure. In fact, though sometimes uncomfortable to the passengers, you should feel reassured after a nice steep climb. In fact, you could say to yourself, "great climb, that extra altitude feels good!" And then, very shortly after that the pilot may reduce the thrust to level off at an intermediate altitude, usually around 3000 or 5000 feet at the airports around the east coast that I fly into. This off course could feel like you are descending because of the great reduction in thrust--in fact, your motion sensors in your inner ear may try to tell you that you are descending when in fact you are only leveling off from a climb.

So, to somewhat summarize, one of the serious events that could happen right after takeoff would be an engine failure, and that is an event that has received the most attention from all interested parties so that if it happens it can happen safely. Of course there are a myriad of other things which others have covered elsewhere in this thread, but all are extremely improbable. But let's say you practically want to feel safer when you fly, then you might fly on an airplane built with 2 or more engines. I say this without knowing the statistics for the single-engine "puddle jumpers" that fly passengers to some of the smaller destinations, but I myself "feel" safer when flying to one of those smaller destinations in an aircraft with 2 engines. Statiscally, that may not even be true.

Well, I hope this answers some of your questions and helps at least a little.

Hutch :tiphat:

[cjpcmp]

Thank you for replying. :)
If possible can you clear up one more thing that I am worried about during take-off?
I also would like to know what if the pilot decides not to abort take-off, and they take off anyways without enough speed, then will the plane crash and fall rapidly back down to the ground, or is there a way that the plane can still land safely without crashing? What would actually happen if the pilot does not abort takeoff, and they starts taking off without enough speed? Can you tell me if the plane would be able to start climbing or would the plane just fall backwards from the sky? Maybe, you can clear up what happens it this situation?
Thank you so much ;)

Crystal

[MathFox]

Crystal, you are having a lot of "what ifs" that are irrelevant. Pilots know what speed the plane needs to fly safely; take off speed is at least 20% above the minimum speed the plane needs to fly. They (or the airline) have computed that speed taking all relevant factors (air pressure, temperature, wind and plane weight) into account. They also calculate how much runway they need to get to that speed and the decision speed that Captain Hutch told about.

If an airline pilot can not take off safely, he won't even try. (Family waiting for him at home.) He can order that cargo is unloaded, ask for another (longer) runway and so on and so on. If a multi-engine airliner is starting its take off run the pilots will either abort it safely, or be able to return to the airport safely with one engine out.

Your question actually is "What if the two well trained professionals up front, make some basic 'lake off 101' blunders?". I doubt whether someone who make the kind of "not enough speed to take off" mistake will ever receive a Private Pilot License. He won't make it past an "engine out" simulator run at an airline.

[cjpcmp]

I worry way too much lol.

I appreciate your help. :)

Thank You

[aerobat]

I doubt whether someone who make the kind of "not enough speed to take off" mistake will ever receive a Private Pilot License.

Speaking from experience with a couple of former students who did indeed make this mistake (or another closely related) early on, I will say that they did complete their training and became private pilots, and one is now an excellent instructor.

They made the mistake once. I intervened and saved our butts, and they never came close to doing that thing again.

Crystal, I agree totally with MathFox that worries of this sort are way off the chart. It won't happen. It would be more fruitful to worry about that bozo in the next lane on the freeway, at least to the point of having a thumb on the horn and head on a swivel. :) Flying is so much safer!!