John Wayne Airport

[maroonwings]

Hi Capt. Hutch,

I don't know what your usual schedule is, but have you ever flown out of John Wayne/Santa Ana? I've read that takeoffs there have to be done at a higher speed and steeper incline than usual, because of their short runway and local noise restrictions. Then soon after getting in the air, the pilot has to cut back power to the engines pretty quickly. (I'm probably explaining that badly, but that's pretty much what I gathered from reading what other passengers had to say about it.) This all sounds pretty stomach-turning, and I'm going to ask the pilot about it when I get on the plane to come back, but I was just wondering if you had ever flown out of there or somewhere like it, and what that sort of craziness feels like for passengers.

Thanks,
Beth

[Captain Hutch]

Hi Beth,

No, I have not actually flown into John Wayne myself, but I have heard the same thing that you have about the departure out of there. Additionally, I had heard the restrictions had been eased more recently so as to not have the departure considered unsafe. I will try to talk to some of my pilot friends who have flown out of there to get some more details for you.

I can imagine what that feels like for the passengers. Sometimes taking off out of Washington National airport we make some interesting turns to avoid the prohibited area (Washington Monument) across the Potomac River. This is standard procedure for takeoffs to the north, but to a passenger who is used to nothing but straight ahead, the takeoff might seem a little surprising. Usually the engines are cut back shortly after takeoff to meet noise restrictions or low altitude level offs, and so are not unusual, but maybe a little stomach churning as you said to those not ready for it. Talking to the pilot to get an idea of what to expect is a great idea!!

Reference noise restrictions, jet engines more recently have been built to be quieter than in the past, so the restrictions on noise abatement have been eased somewhat.

Hutch :)

[Meredith]

I have pretty much the same concerns flying/landing out of both LAX and Chicago/O'hare. While I have been in and out of LAX, this will be my first flight into Chicago and from there to La Crosse, WI. Being that the La Crosse airport is a small one, are the takeoff's/landings any more.... er.... scary than usual?

Also, a question about G forces. Once, on a flight landing in Atlanta, the plane banked too quickly or something and for several seconds we were all sort of... jammed against our seats. I recall feeling extremely uncomfortable and not even being able to swallow! At least, that's how it felt. The pilot came on a minute or so later and apologized for the maneuver. Any idea what that could have been about and does it happen often? Is it possible for g-forces to be so hard that a passenger can actually stay "stuck" in his/her seat?

Meredith

[tusphotog]

Ah, SNA--home of the NIMBYs who constantly complain about the airport, which was built far, far, far before many of them lived there.

Anyway, here's what happens with SNA departures: for starters, there's a 5,701 foot runway, which is one of the shorter ones in the country. That's not a big deal though. Departing aircraft use a steep climb profile up to about 1,500 feet. Normal takeoffs use ~15 degrees nose up, SNA uses 20+ degrees nose up, with max power.

About 1,500 feet, they'll chop the power to get a 700 fpm climb (very shallow climb), while following a very precise departure path in order not to trip any noise monitoring stations, which result in heavy fines, and a visit from the FAA.

About five-six miles over the water, they'll go back to a standard climb rate, clean the aircraft up, and you'll be on your way.

Basically the departure uses more power and climbs at a higher climb rate for a few minutes, then reduces to a very slow climb. I've been through SNA about 100 times or so over the years and I'd say 99% of the time, the crew has said "this is what happens if you've never flown out of here."

It's a pretty fun departure in the back--you feel how powerful the aircraft are. The guys up front are under a little more pressure since there's very little room for error in regards to the lateral navigation. Several years ago I had a flight out of there when the 737-700 was brand new at Southwest. There was nobody on board and I thought the liftoff was a bit steeper than a normal SNA departure. As we were leaving, I poked my head up front and asked if it was true. The FO laughed and said he was literally leaning against the stick to keep the nose under a 30 degree climb. He said they weren't used to the plane's climb performance yet and were amazed at how it "sprung" off the ground.

As for flights to small airports, nothing will be different except you'll get through the TSA quicker (sometimes).

Enjoy the flights to SNA. Flip off the people in Newport Beach for me, too. :D