Engine Failure

[bellevueace]

Hi Whats the odds of Both engines failing say on a 737 or 757? If this did happen at altitude would it be possible to bring the aircraft down with any degree of safety? My worries centre around being so far up and having to rely on the mechanics to keep the plane airborne. How reliable are these engines? Thanks.

[EyesSkyward]

Hi Whats the odds of Both engines failing say on a 737 or 757?

Pretty much astronomical. The engines are astoundingly reliable and built like tanks.

(That doesn't mean pilots still don't train for it though.)

If this did happen at altitude would it be possible to bring the aircraft down with any degree of safety?Not only possible, but actually quite likely.

In fact, off the top of my head, the only time I can recall hearing about both engines of a large airliner going kaput is the famous case of Air Canada flight 143--AKA "the Gimli Glider".

The plane landed with no injuries, and was flown out of the emergency landing site (a decommissioned runway that was being used as a drag-racing strip) two days later.

That was nearly 25 years ago. The plane continued to be flown up until it was officially "retired", just a few weeks ago! Like tanks, I tell ya...

I often like to remind people that the Space Shuttle lands without engines all the way down from re-entry, every single time. And it's coming down a lot faster than any plane you'll ever be in! :thumbsup:

- Jeff, who is not a UK Pilot

[tusphotog]

In fact, off the top of my head, the only time I can recall hearing about both engines of a large airliner going kaput is the famous case of Air Canada flight 143--AKA "the Gimli Glider".


There have been a couple other ones over the years, most recently Air Transat out of Canada had a fuel problem on an A330, lost both engines between Toronto and Portugal and was able to glide for about 30 minutes and land in the Azores.

[EyesSkyward]

There have been a couple other ones over the years, most recently Air Transat out of Canada had a fuel problem on an A330, lost both engines between Toronto and Portugal and was able to glide for about 30 minutes and land in the Azores.

You got me thinking, so I poked around and found one other incident: Hapag-Lloyd Flight 3378 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapag-Lloyd_Flight_3378)

A few things to keep in mind:

1) That's three total engine failures in 25 years (that I've found, anyway). When you consider that there have been millions upon millions of airline flights in that time, that's not too shabby.

2) None of the three incidents resulted in fatalities. The few minor injuries were mostly caused by the evacuation processes, rather than the landings. You gotta be careful going down that slide!

3) In each case, the engines themselves were actually working fine. They were all essentially fuel management mistakes (or, more accurately, a chain of mistakes. It's never just one single mistake.)

- Jeff

[bellevueace]

Thanks for the response, it really puts the fear of total mechanical failure in perspective. Never thought of the space shuttle landing without engines, it wont seem as bad now somehow knowing that even if a total failure did occur which seems a million to one or more at least it can be brought down.

[Tracy]

That's amazing.
I never thought about the space shuttle thing either.
Well that certainly makes me feel better!

[spiffyone]

I just watched the space shuttle landing this AM. It always amazes me. Think about how much faster it is going and how much more quickly it descends than a normal plane. They showed a wide shot of it descending from 11,000 feet to the runway and it appeared to be just dropping like a stone (of course it wasn't, but it was coming in at a much sharper angle than a plane would, according to the astronaut guy CNN had on this morning).
That thing is huge, and heavy, too. If they can land that...
Well, it makes me feel better just to watch it.

[Falcon]

Hi Whats the odds of Both engines failing say on a 737 or 757? If this did happen at altitude would it be possible to bring the aircraft down with any degree of safety? My worries centre around being so far up and having to rely on the mechanics to keep the plane airborne. How reliable are these engines? Thanks.
Sorry for the lateness of my reply. As has been said the odds are extremely long. There is an extremely slim chance so we have a procedure for it. Aircraft will still glide even at 50 odd tons. The higher the altitude the better as this gives the crew more options to choose a landing place. The landing gear and flaps can be deployed using electric pumps using battery power. As a matter of fact we practised this last year in our sim check.

[bellevueace]

All this type of information increases confidence thanks.
Misinformation can certainly add to the fear of flying if not be the root cause.
The more i learn about aviation in general the better i feel.
Thanks.

[Falcon]

Glad to hear we can do our bit to help. There is no such thing as a silly question.

[missbrannigan]

Thanks so much...that has really helped me out too!!:)

[bellevueace]

Talking about having no engine power if an aircraft can glide down as does the space shuttle what happens on landing if there is no power to deploy the reverse thrust? Does this point to reverse thrust not really being needed to slow the aircraft?

[MathFox]

Reverse trust provides only part of the braking, there also are the wing spoilers and wheel brakes. The nice thing about reverse thrust is that it helps to keep the wheel brakes and wheels cool...
It is another redundant system; if one system fails, other systems can take over. (In the original plans the A380 had no thrust reversers, but the FAA insisted on them. Airbus put them on the inner engines only.)

[bellevueace]

Oh right thanks, i always imagined the aircraft overshooting the runway if not being able to deploy reverse thrust. This forum really highlights the mis conception about flying that i had. The information ive found here has certainly helped with my next flight which is in 8 days time. Actually knowing the real facts about flying makes you realise how far off the mark common worries are. Normally id be imagining allsorts a week before a flight, at the moment ive had no thoughts regarding the plane like i normally would have, just a few very, very faint butterflies which i think is more down to looking forward to the holiday than the actual flight. Hope so anyway, when you learn the positives you just dont take note of the negatives and they just appear less and less, thanks once again for the info on the engines, that was one of my main concerns.