wake turbulence and flight 587 (warning, crash mentioned)

[Global Investments]

I hate take-offs and always feel like the plane will fall back down as it is climbing. I recently read the NTSB report (dumb, I know) on flight 587 which crashed on takeoff in NY right after 9-11. The reason it crashed is that the plane hit wake turbulence and the pilot over-corrected by pushing too much on the rudder pedals. The plane then lost control and went down.

This is reallly scary to me because I can't believe a plane would crash for something that sounds so minor. I am especially afraid since it was on take off. Can anyone help me put this in perspective?

Thanks

[Passenger Mark]

Hi Global,

After I posted my welcome message to you, I seemed to remember a similar question over on Captain Ray's board. So I went hunting for it...

Sure enough found it...

p197.ezboard.com/ffearoff...D=33.topic (http://p197.ezboard.com/ffearofflying16582frm9.showMessage?topicID=33.topi c)

Some good info there, hope it helps!

Mark

[CaptainStark]

According to the NTSB, the FO broke the tail off the Airbus by moving the rudder pedals. That is why the plane crashed. The wake episode was really only a minor factor.

Takeoffs are fun! We have to pitch up steeply to keep the planes from over-speeding the flaps. The steep climb gets us away from obstacles on the ground and that's GOOD! It gets you up to cruise altitude faster and that gets you to your destination faster.

Ray:ray

[Global Investments]

Thanks Captain Stark.

I just thought it was weird that a few hard pushes on the rudder pedals could cause the whole plane to lose control. I am sure the FO only had a few seconds to react to the wake turbulence and it seemed like a natural reaction (sort of like over-correcting in a car when you lose control). I guess it is obvious that I overthink these things!

I wish I could look at take-off as an adventure. Maybe some day with the help of this board!

[Huey]

As usual, a sequence of things had to go wrong before the accident occured.

In this case, I believe (without taking the time to look up the NTSB report) the composite tail had already suffered an over-stress condition and had weakened. It was being watched more closely, but the combination of the stress and the FO's abrupt control input, which shouldn't have happened, caused the failure.

Composite materials are, in many or most cases, stronger than the metals used, especially for the weight of the material. The problem is that when they fail, they fail catastrophically. Metals will give you a hint that something is wrong. So, when a composite part is strained the mechanics inspect it more often and more thoroughly.

These days, there is something called "nanotechnology", which basically involves using computers and sensors the size of pinhead. These sensors will be incorporated into composite structures to provide feedback about stress and possible weakness. This is only a few years away, from what I hear.

[CaptainStark]

I cannot fathom why the pilot got on the rudders as they say he did. I have been through a zillion wake encounters and in jets, rudder is rarely, if ever used. And, if it is, it is used gently to nudge the nose of the plane out of the channel of turbulence. What he did is something that is unique in my flying experience and is something I have never witnessed from another pilot --ever.

VERY unusual indeed...

Ray:ray

[Huey]

It makes me wonder if it was the same FO who overstressed the aircraft in the first place.

I haven't read the NTSB report, but it looks like I need to.

[Global Investments]

Thank you, that is the reassurance I was looking for, that it was not a normal or usual reaction to wake turbulence by the FO.