A new bread of airplanes. [Archive] - Taking Flight

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omer

07-03-2007, 04:51 PM

:airplane: Hi there,
I'm a 43 yrs old Turkish man who studied college in the States (lots of flying by then) who can't fly for 8 yrs now.
Probably the worst case anyone can come across since I already sold out multi million dollar shares for peanuts just to avoid flying. Do drive within Turkey a lot these days and realy, realy sick of it.
There is an ancient tale around here saying god asked one time to a hatch backed man " would you wish that I fix your hatch back or do all the rest of the people of this world hatch backed? man answered please god, do the rest hatch backed" after that I'm coming to my point I've checked the net and all web sites related to "fear of flight" "flight fear" ex. all starts with a prejudes against grounded ones as "people tobe treated somewhat"
Well, my point is;
I don't think that I'm sick I just think the plane producing monopolies and customer= cattle minded airlines are over focused on stuffing more people in less plane with no real safety advancements applied.
Jet fuel is still extremely flamable, there are still no exits out of the planes in mid air.
Just all keep saying the chances are less in mid air where they can in actuality place less people in the planes with some what of a last change device should there be a necessity.
Airforce one has an option for passangers inside to leave the plane and my life is equally worthy plus I'm willing to pay extra to fly safer instead of the industries current attitude "oh we placed new lights into the planes that will keep your pschology in good mood" or "new pastel fabrics to keep all calm" Those planes are potential infernos (only if one gear gets stuck during landing).with funny pillows supposed to keep a float in sea where the fact is jets can't land in water at all in any condition other than a miracle, period.
I say we grounded ones are not sick (or at least that sick) but the industry has to produce planes with no champaign and caviar but real gear, gear to give an option to survive.
There are many grounded influantial people around the world who hide themselves where a lobby can be formed to presure the industry to listen to what we have to say.
If we unite under one body around the world we can represent a potantial customer group who requires certain kind of planes to fly atleast at the most -nonealternative to fly- routes around the world at least at some times of the week. Tickets will be more than 4-5 times as expensive ofcourse (and no caviar) but hey without flying, we are living like the guy in the movie "boxing Helena" anyways.
The modifications required for the planes are a whole different ball game and probably require a whole new breed of planes.
-Have to add this that I'm not suggesting to change the whole industry neither plane production nor airliners wise, just profit motivatingly forcing some of the major producers to maybe produce a "limited adition" so to speak for the concerned fliers.
First there needs to form a body of the fair concerned fliers, that body has to define what modifications can feasably be required and done, then that body again has to decide among the first -non alternative to fly routes- to activate (logically one route with couple stops in Europe and one in nort America) to start with, only then comes the initial fund raising for such a production (which I believe will be the easiest part) then approaching to Boing and Airbus at first and saying
We are a serious group of people (proof is we have say 30.000 members already and the cash), can you produce us 1-2 jets/turboprops of such and such of your models with the following modifications/alterations? Note that the modifications will be all of down to earth, proved technologies though never done/used certain suggested ways before.
I had 8 years and literally thousands of driving hours to think about what fair and feasable comprimise to do with the planes for such a project realy.-
All of the above mentioned is just the tip of the iceberg of a group of ideas that one can't be with the other realy.
Thank you for your patiance for the not interested and for thoes provide this platform though I might have gone to the edge of this web sites format.

Barb-SAN

07-03-2007, 05:19 PM

:welcome2:

Hi Omer...:wave: Welcome aboard Taking Flight. I believe you are the first man from Turkey to join us here. It will be very interesting to have your experiences and perspective on the board. Where do you live in Turkey (generally), and where did you go to school in the U.S.? I travelled to several cities in Turkey in the early 70's (up the coast to Istanbul by overnight bus...:) then several days there exploring the city). It was fascinating, and the people were very friendly and kind.

It sounds like you have encountered some prejudices there about your fear of flying. There are lots of people in the U.S. also who don't understand fear of flying. That is one of the goals of this website...to help educate people about what it is, and how to overcome it.

I hope that you will feel free to browse around the website and read some of the stories of others who have had the same concerns that you mention, and how they eventually were able to fly successfully again. Two recent successes are Tattooed Jared and Hoosier (look for posts under their name).

You make some interesting points too about a customer lobby to make safer and more comfortable planes. I suppose, since it is a "free global market", that someone with enough money could certainly make a plane that had lots of features that would help people with fear of flying feel more comfortable and safer. It would be interesting to know if it would be economically feasible.

For now...I believe your options are to fly first class, or by private plane, to have more comfort and control (or reduce your anxiety to the point that you are comfortable in coach).

As far as safety...you said you are sick of driving in Turkey. What are the safety statistics for driving there, compared to flying domestically?

Well...once again, welcome aboard, and I hope that you will enjoy participating here, and will find some useful help. :)

Barb-SAN

07-03-2007, 05:29 PM

I just realized that you posted a poll above your post. I've gone in and deleted the questions for now. Please send a private message to Passenger Mark, the site administrator, and request permission to take a poll, thanks. Are you doing some sort of marketing or potential product survey (Fearful Fliers' Airlines, perhaps?)

Passenger Mark

07-03-2007, 07:38 PM

Hi Omer!

Welcome aboard!

You bring up some interesting questions, but I think you are heading down the wrong path.

If I read your post right, you seem to want an absolute promise that nothing is going to happen, or if something does happen, and absolute promise that you will be saved.

There are not absolute promises in life. Anything can happen, which is what makes life interesting. We can work to reduce the risks, but the bottom line is there is always going to be some kind of risk.

If we concentrate too much on removing all risks in life, we will end up like Howard Hughes locking ourselves in a room and wearing tissue boxes on our feet! I say no thanks... I will take the risks!

Commercial air travel is the safest form of transportation. FAR safer than any type of overland travel.

The questions about parachutes has come up before. The reason they are not practicle is for one... there is no need in them. Rarely do planes just fall out of the sky at 37,000 feet. In fact, I have never heard of a modern commercial airliner just falling out of the sky.

It would not be possible to jump from an airliner traveling at 400+ MPH at 37,000 feet in the air.

If you are coming in for a landing, there is not enough time or altitude to jump.

But again... the biggest reason for not having parachutes is because... well... there is just no need to leave the plane while it is at cruise.

As for Air Force One... the people on board can't just leave the plane either. I know in the movie Air Force One, everyone jumped off of a rear ramp. I think this is just the movies, and even then... in a "fantasy" they had to get below a certain altitude and speed. There is a rumor that the President can escape in a capsule... but this is not confirmed.

Yes... jet fuel is flamable. It would not work otherwise. They are working on less flamable fuels. However... again... when is the last time you have heard of a plane exploding? It has been ages... and compared to the number of commercial flights in the air... it is indeed a rare event.

The bottom line is commercial air travel is the safest, most regulated, forms of transportation. I now feel very safe onboard a commercial airliner, because I am safer there than in my own home.

Barb-SAN

07-10-2007, 01:07 AM

Hi Omer,
I just read the following article about the new Boeing 787 and thought of you. It certainly looks like this airplane has been designed with passenger comfort in mind! :)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19421451/

omer

07-10-2007, 02:57 PM

Hi Omer!

Welcome aboard!

You bring up some interesting questions, but I think you are heading down the wrong path.No one took this path before!

If I read your post right, you seem to want an absolute promise that nothing is going to happen, or if something does happen, and absolute promise that you will be saved.

There are not absolute promises in life. Anything can happen, which is what makes life interesting. We can work to reduce the risks, but the bottom line is there is always going to be some kind of risk. Naturally

If we concentrate too much on removing all risks in life, we will end up like Howard Hughes locking ourselves in a room and wearing tissue boxes on our feet! I say no thanks... I will take the risks!

Commercial air travel is the safest form of transportation. FAR safer than any type of overland travel. Sure

The questions about parachutes has come up before. The reason they are not practicle is for one... there is no need in them. Rarely do planes just fall out of the sky at 37,000 feet. Well known factIn fact, I have never heard of a modern commercial airliner just falling out of the sky.
JAL earlier repaired (by Boing itself by the way) tail presure bearing blew of (people had half an hour of extreme diving and climbing some even had chance to write wills on napkins). Greek Cyprus air lost pressure. Canadian air run out of fuel, German -some Carabbian visiting charter plane- stolled, Egypt airs captain decided to suicide.......
It would not be possible to jump from an airliner traveling at 400+ MPH at 37,000 feet in the air. That's why all air scared dreams of something slower and easier to leave. People should have individual oxy tank back packs. (when American Airlines top section ripped open due to metal fatique 10 years ago right after leaving Honolulu stupid non functional tell tail oxy masks couldn't be grabed by most passangers any ways. When you need them they wont be there any ways due to extreme wind blowing in by the cut/rip hole due to bomb, bullet, missile, metal fatique whatever)

If you are coming in for a landing, there is not enough time or altitude to jump. So they say however I saw video footages where crushed stunts left litteraly 50 feet or so above the ground and made it out alive.

But again... the biggest reason for not having parachutes is because... well... there is just no need to leave the plane while it is at cruise.
Cutes invented abouth a century ago. The whole industry is wrong, purpose oriented I should say, simple logic requires a workable cute system made available (along with a fair enough working exit system) for at least those want to fight their way out. Accepting the faith along with a 75 years old nany sitting next chair who can not conduct anything physical/pschologcal strenght wise to deal and beat the situation even if she wanted to do so any ways. Not for all the planes and all the passangers for those want to take this approach there should be an option..

As for Air Force One... the people on board can't just leave the plane either. I know in the movie Air Force One, everyone jumped off of a rear ramp. I think this is just the movies, and even then... in a "fantasy" they had to get below a certain altitude and speed. There is a rumor that the President can escape in a capsule... but this is not confirmed.

Yes... jet fuel is flamable. It would not work otherwise. They are working on less flamable fuels.Yes I remember back at 1984 seeing a test of landing a retired old jet with the experimental new fuel at some desert field at Nevada. Didn't work though. Flamable fuel is ok given sea landing and leaving with cute chances made available at certain lines (back pack with oxy tank, sea survival gear, smal basic radar reflector [1,- USD.'s worth metal covered plastic folding aparetus realy], water tight radio pointer beeper and GPS connector as well as little fresh water and food, all worths 40-50 USD's and weighs not in excess of 20 pounds realy). However... again... when is the last time you have heard of a plane exploding?TWA of the coast of NewEngland It has been ages... and compared to the number of commercial flights in the air... it is indeed a rare event.

The bottom line is commercial air travel is the safest, most regulated, forms of transportation. I now feel very safe onboard a commercial airliner, because I am safer there than in my own home.
I know, understand and cosign all that you kindly indicated above yet my point is righ now there is no comparably fast, feasable way say to cross the Atlantic and get to the States (or back) for hard headeds, there is no alternative no option atall. I know a major textile machines producer industrialist stuck in Italy, I know a famous Turkish journalist stuck in Turkey just many, many flight afraid people want a real option. Where instead of this newly formed Japanies airlines offering expensive smoking only flights to Europe some people should try to gain people like us. I even have the interior seating -not of the Mars trip, very real, feasable, simple and working- plan of the airplane that I'm suggesting. I gave an example of the transatlantic root to make my point first plane and root wont be for transatlantic (new problems come up due to long flight duration) but one root across Northern USA (for the concerned to travel LA to Chicago to Newyork and back atleast once a week) and one root across whole Europe, starting from England to Germany and through Russia to far east (with many stops available) Probable airplanes Bombarders new Q 400 or Airbus military A300 heavy lifter ticket prices will be 3-4 fold (due to less flying realy, other wise a new plane has to fly 6-7 times of abouth an hour trips to be economically viable, I reasearched, I had thousands of driving hours to think like a prisoners escape plane) with no food service atall but scarcly placed, larger special passanger seats. no individual exist would be available but a central bay, -like a gally in a way- to which any can enter through two integrated tranparent passages (syncronized) and stay if /as long as wishes to with that central bay bottom opening ability under the control of a real survival trained stewart. That stewart can even just zip out anyone who he doesn't like, like the old Bond movies Astonmartin DB4's.:sunshine: )
By the way I can't seem to be able to change on my earlier treads heading from
"a new bread of airplanes" to "a new breed of airplanes" I don't know if you can. Thank you again and I'll understand if you just show me the exist door out of this site due to out of place opinions (let alone out of touch.) yet sorry, but above is exactly what I believe in. I'm even willing to invest in it. After all, I lost so much money due to not flying that this issue fairly ows me back some.

Barb-SAN

07-10-2007, 04:10 PM

By the way I can't seem to be able to change on my earlier treads heading from
"a new bread of airplanes" to "a new breed of airplanes" I don't know if you can. Thank you again and I'll understand if you just show me the exist door out of this site due to out of place opinions (let alone out of touch.) yet sorry, but above is exactly what I believe in. I'm even willing to invest in it. After all, I lost so much money due to not flying that this issue fairly ows me back some.

Hi Omer,
I don't think we can get in and edit the titles of threads...maybe only the webmaster can do that. We will forgive you for the spelling mistake though, knowing that English is your second language. I'm sure most of us would do much worse if we tried to write in Turkish. ;)

I think you have a good sense of humor...you can obviously laugh at yourself even though it's a serious issue, this fear of flying, that has cost you a great deal of money.

I've had a small business for 30 years now, and one thing I've learned is that it's smart to never laugh at someone's ideas. You never know when something someone says, even as a joke, will be the inspiration for a new way of solving a problem.

Did you have a chance to look at the article I posted about the Boeing 787 in the post above yours? You can see that the engineers have taken a good look at how to make a better, more comfortable airplane, and continuously make improvements in design.

Now...about your "new breed of airplane"...yes, it's possible that could be a radical solution to the problem for fearful fliers, depending on what their fears are. Not everyone is afraid of crashing. Some have fears of claustrophobia, and loss of control. Others are afraid they will have a panic attack.

One thing to consider is, what is more important to you right now? Flying comfortably NOW so that you don't lose yet more money from having to drive rather than fly?
Or, working to raise money for this special airline, that might take your entire lifetime to make the modifications that you have in mind, even if they are feasible. Your target market might still not want to fly, if they have extreme fear of flying.

Wouldn't it be more efficient to first tackle your own fear of flying? There are many different ways of doing that. If you read through some of the threads on this forum, you may begin to get some ideas of how different people have tackled their fears, and gradually were able to conquer them. No one is saying that it will be easy though. It will take time, energy, commitment, perhaps work with a professional anxiety therapist, and most importantly, a willingness to experience some anxiety as you do exercises like going to the airport for lunch and watching planes taking off and landing, etc.

What do you think about that?;)

aerobat

07-10-2007, 10:01 PM

Hi, Omer,

First, let me thank you for speaking up and sharing your concerns with us. A lot of people visit here without registering, and we are hopeful that some of them are airline executives who genuinely want to improve service for all passengers, and especially nervous passengers.

I'm not the person to address the feasibility of your proposals for the airlines, but I strongly echo the other Barb's thoughts about how creativity and demand push innovation.

I would like to ask, however, whether you have explored the option of smaller jets? While the companies operating private jets tend to fly on request, without formal schedules, it occurs to me that if you are in communication with other influential grounded executives who have the money to spend on the safety features and comfort you collectively demand, that there ought to be response from an international company out there, such as ExecutiveJet or NetJets, which offer fractional ownership. Is this an avenue you have explored?

That said, if you consider yourself "hard-headed" and co-sign all that Passenger Mark said above, doesn't it seem most reasonable to structure your goal as a compromise between (1) a feasible, practical upgrade in service and (2) a systematic reduction of your anxiety? There are, after all, many, many corporate movers-and-shakers who fly internationally all the time through decades of their lives, with little hesitation or fear, arriving safely every time. You undoubtedly know some of these people; do they not provide you an acceptable template?

What we can do here is to help you find the resources necessary to address your fear of flying, but that requires a willingness to examine and deconstruct it in favor of a more desirable set of feelings about flying. It seems clear to us that you are not satisfied with the way you feel about flying, apart from the specific recommendations you'd like to make to the airlines. I know that you may consider your fear to be "the worst case anyone has come across", but that is likely part of the strategy your fear uses against you. I entreat you to consider that your fear of flying--like that of most people--is a neurochemical lie. It is a trick that your brain has played upon you. When we are in the throes of this nasty trickery, all of our resources--our intelligence, our logic, our wealth, our access to information--can be co-opted by our fear and used against us. It is all a colossal trick, and the most subtle aspect of this trickery lies in our inability to see it for what it is. It is as if it stands behind us, hidden, all the time, and because we do not have eyes in the backs of our heads, we cannot see it.

There is more to say about this, and there are recommendations we can offer you as effective, practical ways to change your flying paradigm. But I will stop here and respectfully suggest that you consider that your fear is a trick, and that the best solution is for you to accept this simple (also noble and heroic) mission: trick it back!! And boot it out of your life. Then you will be absolutely free to decide upon the standards which an air carrier must meet to be worthy of your trust, and your business. And the cage door will be open.

Barb

Barb-SAN

07-11-2007, 02:20 AM

Omer, One of the wonderful things about the Internet is that we can all take a virtual visit to Istanbul, and check out some things over there where you live....photos, and so forth.

I was just looking up some information about Turkish Airlines...it seems that they do have a very good reputation for safety. Here's the link about that: http://www.thy.com/en-INT/corporate/about_us/flight_safety.asp

This might seem like an odd suggestion, but I see that Turkish Airlines has a training program for flight attendants. http://www.thy.com/en-INT/services/training_services/flight_training_services/cabin_crew_training.aspx I wonder if you would consider enrolling in that program, even if you didn't intend to become a flight attendant? I'd think with money and connections most things are possible (especially if you explained your reasons).

It would give you a lot of information about how the airlines currently operate, safety procedures, etc. This education might serve two functions. First, you might find it reassuring to learn more about what the crew does to insure your safety right now. It would also give you a chance to get acquainted with some airline professionals, pilots and flight attendants, and would be a chance to ask lots of questions about things that concern you. It would give you more connections within the airline industry too.

If you did go ahead with your special airline idea, it would give you more information about what is already available, and give you new ideas for where improvements might be made. Part of running a special airline would require training the staff to give special attention to the fearful flyer. Having completed a flight attendant course yourself, you would already know what is required for a good training course.

Here's what the training consists of:

Initial Training

The very first training for the new cabin attendants covers the following issues:

International Civil Aviation Organisations and Regulations
The Cabin Crew Members' Duties and Responsibilities
Passenger Handling
Inflight Service
Passenger Relations
Normal Safety Procedures
• Cabin Report (Take off & Landing)
• Incapacitated Pilot
• Fuelling / de-fuelling with passenger on board
• Dangerous Goods, etc.
Emergency Procedures
• Emergency Equipment
• Fire & Smoke
• De-compression
• Bomb & Hi-jack
• Evacuation (Land & Ditching)
• Survival
• Practical Training for Emergency Evacuation
First Aid
Crew Resource ManagementConversion Training

Aircraft in General
Cabin Familiarization
Evacuation Devices
Oxygen
Fire Fighting Equipment
Portable Emergency Equipment
Emergency Procedures & Evacuation
Practical Training at Mock-up

Barb-SAN

07-11-2007, 02:51 AM

I would like to ask, however, whether you have explored the option of smaller jets? While the companies operating private jets tend to fly on request, without formal schedules, it occurs to me that if you are in communication with other influential grounded executives who have the money to spend on the safety features and comfort you collectively demand, that there ought to be response from an international company out there, such as ExecutiveJet or NetJets, which offer fractional ownership. Is this an avenue you have explored?
Barb

This is a very interesting idea too. Here's the link for NetJets Europe:
http://www.netjetseurope.com/eng/welcome-to-netjets/ This looks like a very nice way to travel. I understand that business jets are becoming more popular due to fewer hassles with security lines, crowds, etc. Certainly if you can afford to pay the higher cost, it would be worth checking into this option.

NetJets claims to be very safety conscious too:

"We spend more on safety than many airlines.
Safety is an obsession at NetJets. From pilot qualifications and training to maintenance to operations, we never rest. And we refuse to compromise. No matter what it takes, your safety comes first."

aerobat

07-11-2007, 04:36 AM

There is an ancient tale around here saying god asked one time to a hatch backed man " would you wish that I fix your hatch back or do all the rest of the people of this world hatch backed? man answered please god, do the rest hatch backed"

Aha! So, from this I take it that the best solution is not to remove the fear of flying from those who have it, but rather to convince all people that the fear is rational, transform them into fearful fliers, and then the airlines would have to respond! :lol: Yes, they'd have to respond all right--probably by going completely belly-up.:( But I understand the moral of the tale, and applaud the good humor with which you offer it.:tiphat:

It isn't going to happen, you know.

I say we grounded ones are not sick (or at least that sick)
Now we are absolutely on the same wavelength. :)

I say we are not sick at all! I speak as someone who was grounded for most of 30 years (not any more :)).

I like to use the metaphor of a ski accident. I don't know if you are a skier, but even if not, consider the case of the man who takes a bad fall on an advanced ski trail and breaks a leg. He was skiing well, but the snow was just too shallow in one spot and he caught a tip and tumbled. Now he has a broken leg due to an accident, (nothing more) and it's going to be weeks before he can walk :shakehead, much less dance.:tango:

Is he sick? Of course not. Was the accident his fault? Not really, unless we go around laying blame on people when accidents happen in the midst of calculated risk preceded by good preparation and training.

Once we learn the basics about anxiety, and truly understand how phobias develop, we can remove from our shoulders an enormous weight of stigma, shame, and self-blame. We can go eye to eye with those who suggest we are sick, and tell them to get themselves some education.

The fear of flying is an accident which happens to us!! The circumstances vary, and the fear itself varies, but the common denominator is that we become hypersensitized to the experience of flying. It's a neurochemical back-eddy, and it needs to be addressed with techniques that reset our panic button. If we go about it the right way, we'll be back on that plane and flying comfortably long before that unfortunate skier gets to the dance floor. :)

omer

07-11-2007, 01:55 PM

Thank you Aerobat for your time and assistance.
I did read what you wrote for me and I will do so time and again.
Have a good day for now.

Aha! So, from this I take it that the best solution is not to remove the fear of flying from those who have it, but rather to convince all people that the fear is rational, transform them into fearful fliers, and then the airlines would have to respond! :lol: Yes, they'd have to respond all right--probably by going completely belly-up.:( But I understand the moral of the tale, and applaud the good humor with which you offer it.:tiphat:

It isn't going to happen, you know.

Now we are absolutely on the same wavelength. :)

I say we are not sick at all! I speak as someone who was grounded for most of 30 years (not any more :)).

I like to use the metaphor of a ski accident. I don't know if you are a skier, but even if not, consider the case of the man who takes a bad fall on an advanced ski trail and breaks a leg. He was skiing well, but the snow was just too shallow in one spot and he caught a tip and tumbled. Now he has a broken leg due to an accident, (nothing more) and it's going to be weeks before he can walk :shakehead, much less dance.:tango:

Is he sick? Of course not. Was the accident his fault? Not really, unless we go around laying blame on people when accidents happen in the midst of calculated risk preceded by good preparation and training.

Once we learn the basics about anxiety, and truly understand how phobias develop, we can remove from our shoulders an enormous weight of stigma, shame, and self-blame. We can go eye to eye with those who suggest we are sick, and tell them to get themselves some education.

The fear of flying is an accident which happens to us!! The circumstances vary, and the fear itself varies, but the common denominator is that we become hypersensitized to the experience of flying. It's a neurochemical back-eddy, and it needs to be addressed with techniques that reset our panic button. If we go about it the right way, we'll be back on that plane and flying comfortably long before that unfortunate skier gets to the dance floor. :)

omer

07-11-2007, 02:23 PM

Thankyou barb-SAN for all (I suppose barb-SAN and aerobat are different indivuduals.) and I appreciate it.
I'll answere to couple questions with this; for one, I studied at the Papperdine univ. at Malibu but graduated from URI with a BA degree of economics at 1986. :( Never been back to the States ever since.
I did visited your suggested "dreamliner" site right away yesterday and founded it very fascinating too. As a matter of fact the launch of the "dream liner" has been on our local news coverage for the last say 10 days or so too. Unfortunatelly though, local coverage over it weren't informative atall so yours was good, thank ypu.
Now, I will check with your new suggestions too as per Turkish air's programs and share jet companies as I hadn't given it much tought earlier
By for now Barb-SAN.
Omer, One of the wonderful things about the Internet is that we can all take a virtual visit to Istanbul, and check out some things over there where you live....photos, and so forth.

I was just looking up some information about Turkish Airlines...it seems that they do have a very good reputation for safety. Here's the link about that: http://www.thy.com/en-INT/corporate/about_us/flight_safety.asp

This might seem like an odd suggestion, but I see that Turkish Airlines has a training program for flight attendants. http://www.thy.com/en-INT/services/training_services/flight_training_services/cabin_crew_training.aspx I wonder if you would consider enrolling in that program, even if you didn't intend to become a flight attendant? I'd think with money and connections most things are possible (especially if you explained your reasons).

It would give you a lot of information about how the airlines currently operate, safety procedures, etc. This education might serve two functions. First, you might find it reassuring to learn more about what the crew does to insure your safety right now. It would also give you a chance to get acquainted with some airline professionals, pilots and flight attendants, and would be a chance to ask lots of questions about things that concern you. It would give you more connections within the airline industry too.

If you did go ahead with your special airline idea, it would give you more information about what is already available, and give you new ideas for where improvements might be made. Part of running a special airline would require training the staff to give special attention to the fearful flyer. Having completed a flight attendant course yourself, you would already know what is required for a good training course.

Here's what the training consists of:

Initial Training

The very first training for the new cabin attendants covers the following issues:

International Civil Aviation Organisations and Regulations
The Cabin Crew Members' Duties and Responsibilities
Passenger Handling
Inflight Service
Passenger Relations
Normal Safety Procedures
• Cabin Report (Take off & Landing)
• Incapacitated Pilot
• Fuelling / de-fuelling with passenger on board
• Dangerous Goods, etc.
Emergency Procedures
• Emergency Equipment
• Fire & Smoke
• De-compression
• Bomb & Hi-jack
• Evacuation (Land & Ditching)
• Survival
• Practical Training for Emergency Evacuation
First Aid
Crew Resource ManagementConversion Training

Aircraft in General
Cabin Familiarization
Evacuation Devices
Oxygen
Fire Fighting Equipment
Portable Emergency Equipment
Emergency Procedures & Evacuation
Practical Training at Mock-up

Barb-SAN

07-11-2007, 03:19 PM

omer

07-12-2007, 11:26 AM

I was at LA 1981-1984 and truly believe that LA was the arts and thoughts capital of the US back in those years. We used to drive down to SanDiego to rent out newly invented jet skies, though no wave surfing.
I had a blast with a little convertable in CA..... :)
Didn't have a problem with flying by then. :cry:

So...you had a chance to live in Southern California too then while you were going to school. I hope you enjoyed your time here. Did you learn to surf while living in Malibu? ;)

Barb-SAN

07-12-2007, 03:20 PM

I had a blast with a little convertable in CA..... :)
Didn't have a problem with flying by then. :cry:

Yes, to be a young guy with a convertible in Southern California...I can imagine you had a blast....:lol:

I was just thinking about that too...that obviously you were comfortable enough with flying to get yourself from Turkey to the U.S., and then around the U.S. Did something traumatic happen 8 years ago to cause you to be "grounded" from flying?

omer

07-23-2007, 04:56 PM

Hi Barb-san,
Sorry a bit late but we had the elections here in Turkey which distracted me a while. Any ways I made some surfing through the net over the subject "new generation blimps" which carry upto 12 passangers and 2 pilots.
As of last week I came to the conclusion that the blimps are of no use to any thing realy let alone my flying insperations.
Other than that saturday I lost a member of my EMOK (enduro motorcycle biking club) Other than that I'm bugging other people over the net these days namely one Miami firm trying to sell me jets made to my crazy specs and one other Japanies producer.
I so much need passanger Marks opinion on models realy just had to learn a bit more before I go up and ask him very specifically.....
As to trauma issue, a 3 hour very, very bad flight from Miami to Boston during spring break 1984 with the cheapest charter of the day jet24 was the small start probably, later in life couple bankrupties (I'm sure you can already imagine why, the out of touch buss. venures!) I wasn't in the helm in any realy just had to watch impotent people sink the ships over and again (I guess there added the "control freakness" aspect too.)
That's all, no "silence of the camels" kind of trauma realy.
Some reconstruction with the site is going on eh!

Barb-SAN

07-23-2007, 05:12 PM

Omer...Glad to see you back. I'd been wondering where you went. Yes, I was reading about the elections in Turkey, and it made me think of you.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend in your motorcycle club.

Does that mean that you too ride motorcycles? :shocked: I won't say what I'm sure you know I am thinking....about relative safety of modes of transportation.....:angel:

I understand what you are saying about having a "bad" flight that could be the start of fear of flying. I had one of those too in Hawaii during a bad rain storm with lots of turbulence. I never had realized that there could be a flight like that, because all my previous ones had never had that kind of turbulence. I'm happy to say that I haven't had a flight like that since I've been flying the last three years. There has been SOME turbulence, but it doesn't bother me now like it used to. I have "tools" now to calm me down. And, from taking Cessna lessons, I have a much better understanding of turbulence, and how the plane only drops a short distance before bobbing right back up again...sort of like a boat on a sea with waves (think jet-ski....;)).

Could you explain the term "silence of the camels" trauma for us? (I'm guessing that's a Turkish idiom...I haven't ever heard it before).

omer

07-23-2007, 05:42 PM

talking of pschological traumas I just refered to the movie
"silence of the lambs" and used it in relation to the geographical erea that I'm living in and the animals that are stereo typed with in the context.
The word trauma kind of too strong I thought to mention along with a simple "flight fear" but then again some earlier event, some thing, some experiance must be trigering the fear and amplifiying it to a point that one actually stops flying.

Barb-SAN

07-23-2007, 05:53 PM

.
The word trauma kind of too strong I thought to mention along with a simple "flight fear" but then again some earlier event, some thing, some experiance must be trigering the fear and amplifiying it to a point that one actually stops flying.

Perhaps, but maybe not. In my case, I think it was a whole bunch of different things that just added up over time, including media reports of plane crashes and numerous other things that by themselves weren't really such a big deal.

I just needed to start tackling things that I was avoiding (like elevators), and learned to use some tools like breathing and relaxation techniques, thought-stopping, etc. It took me about 10 months before I got on the plane. Some people have done it much faster. Some people have found working with a therapist to be the most efficient way to make progress. Others can do it with self-help books and a lot of determination, and maybe some cheerleading and information from sites such as this one.

aerobat

07-24-2007, 03:51 AM

For some people, one very, very bad-seeming flight can be all that's needed to kick off a fear of flying :( --even when upon reflection we realize that we were probably not in real danger. However, that realization can be embarrassing, making us want to diminish the importance of the experience.

I am interested in what you say about the bankruptcies aggravating the fear. I am not questioning it, just eager to understand the process. You seem very perceptive and self-aware, and you may already have all the pieces of the mystery, if you wish to call it that. Understanding how the fear began is one way--not the only one--of learning to dismantle it.

Silence of the camels...do they go absolutely silent when they are terrified? :confused:;) Somehow I have an image of them howling and spitting. :tongue:

In any case, FoF can certainly creep up without any big trauma whatever.

omer

07-25-2007, 01:01 PM

Barb-SAN

07-25-2007, 03:37 PM

Dear Barb-San and Aerobat Barb,
Here is something funny.
As earlier mentioned ("concious air project") I'm surfing through the net these days right.
I walk in out of web sights when ever I have a chance, auctions, sales and all.
Some people realy alarmed asking back "can't believe these alterations are for your indicated purpose, what is the larger plan?""will you use it for trained individuals to some purpose?""what was your exact adress, phones, company details?" "your company doesn't look related to air industry"
I can't blame them either given the curcimstances.
Friends now I forgot abouth my flight fear, don't want to buy no planes or anything, just wanna stay alive and save my ass from the secret service guys..:lol:

Oh my gosh....:lol::lol:....that never occurred to me...but yes, I can see that you could find yourself in some trouble if people don't understand the real "problem" that you are trying to solve.

Um...have you looked into finding an anxiety therapist in Instanbul? It truly might be easier and safer than trying to modify the airline industry. :rolleyes: ;)