new to board with questions about FOF

[firsttimeposting]

Hello everyone,
I just stumbled on this board last night and have enjoyed reading your posts. I have never done this before but thought I'd give it a try.

I have grown up travelling everywhere, making many international flights, sometimes even by myself. In my 20's, I had a panic attack one day, unrelated to flying. Now most of my anxiety centers around flying, even though I logged over 100,000 miles this year in business flights.

I take medication to help, but am about to take my first international trip in years. My parents live overseas and I just couldn't let my fear get in the way of not visiting them anymore.

You'd think that all the flying I do would have conditioned me by now. But I guess most of my fears are not about the plane crashing. It is mostly about the embarassment of me having an anxiety attack and putting others out. Also, what if something medically happens to me? I worry how medically trained the airstaff is, how soon we can land and get me medical help, or what I'm about to face which is how do we do all of this when I'm flying over the ocean? On a 13 hr flight, if I have an anxiety attack, I can't "escape" and leave the airplane. How do I keep myself from having another attack? I fear the anxiety more than anything else.

Just writing this is spinning me into an endless outpour of questions. I will appreciate anyone who has any advice, wisdom, or experiences to share.
Thanks!

[MadScientist]

:welcome

I can certainly relate to panic attacks and the fear of having an attack. You mention that you take medications to help with the anxiety but you don't tell us what kind. Things like Xanax can certainly help with anxiety on a temporary basis but a different medicine like Zoloft is superb for preventing panic attacks over the long haul. I took Zoloft for 2 years and never had a panic attack. I stopped taking them 3 years ago and I sometimes have small attacks but nothing major that a xanax can't handle. Thankfully, the attacks a very rare. So, Xanax and Zoloft work differently. Xanax is good to relieve anxiety not not much to prevent panic attacks. Zoloft works great for panic attacks but doesn't really effect anxiety. At least that how it was for me.

As for an in flight emergency, the flight attendants are trained to a small extent and there are defibrillators on most flights as well. (Originally, all flight attendants were required to be a registered nurse). Even flying overseas, you are typically within 1.5 - 2 hours from land at any given point for most overseas flights. Not so sure about flights to Australia though.

Again, welcome aboard from a fellow business traveler.

[beaugest]

Hi welcome to the board
Did you see the post on the part of the board that Captain Ray does. It's exactly about this topic. So, you are not alone.
I'd give you the link but I can't figure out how to do it (when Mark comes on he's great with that stuff). But it addresses this very subject. On that thread it discusses the fact that Flight Attendents are trained to deal with anxiety as well as certain medical emergencies.
I think it's great that you are posting here. Getting answers to some of your concerns can go a long way in calming you before you even get on the plane.
There are many things that you can do on a flight to calm yourself. I'm sure people here will be happy to share with you what they do to relieve the anxiety. So, you may experience some discomfort but not the type that will have you running down the aisles completely panicked.
:welcome

[WillFlyToDisney2]

First of all, WELCOME!
:welcome

You are in the right place. What do you think makes this flight different than the ones you take all the time?

:)
Kelley

[beaugest]

Ken and I must have posted at the same minute. So, let me just add this---his post about the medication is quite accurate. Xanax is a short term agent while a medication like Zoloft(SSRI class of drugs) is long acting. Sometimes, it takes a few tries to get your medications working the way you would want. It is worth working closely with your Dr. to make sure you are on the right course of medication to treat your anxiety.

[Passenger Mark]

Hello, and welcome aboard! It is great to have you here!

You are just like many of us... I too have had anxiety attacks on planes, and wondered how I would do on a long flight. I flew to England from Los Angeles back in August, and it went great. That was my final test.

Once you are on a plane for a few hours, it is all the same. You do become "use" to it.

I am glad that you are reading the messages here, and will hold off from posting more till you have had a chance to take a look at everything. When you have... come back and ask away!

Again... Welcome!

Mark

:welcome

[firsttimeposting]

Wow! I feel so welcomed already.
I just started taking zoloft a couple of months ago. Xanax I didn't like, but I take ativans when I fly. I guess what gets me through the business flights I take is the ativan cause it makes me sleepy and then I fall asleep and just wake up where I need to be. This time, I'm going overseas which is a nonstop 13 hr flight. Much easier to talk yourself into thinking, "I can make it through three hours," vs making it through 13! So all the same worries come out. Plus how I have no faith in anything. I haven't had a major attack in the months I've been taking medication, but it doesn't get rid of the worry of what if the medication fails. I'm also quite sensitive to medication so then I also worry about what if I take a little too much ativan and end up feeling miserable instead. (Reading about all the things I worry about is making me feel so embarassed!):blush

[xiknal]

It really isn't unusual that in all your air travel you haven't gotten used to it or more comfortable with it, though it sounds like for domestic flights, you've reached a sort of uneasy truce. If you'd like a little better explanation of why a fear of flying often does not improve (but gets worse) with repetition, there's a nice discussion by an Australian expert, Les Posen. You can find the link to his site in our Resources section, which is here:

www.takingflight.us/resources/ (http://www.takingflight.us/resources/)

On his home page, check his menu for the topic "why is my fear getting worse...?"

It's essentially that our "fear radar" becomes more and more sensitive to increasingly smaller triggers.

It's your fear of having an anxiety attack which is the big concern...and then, if you did...would the staff be able to help you, and if things really got out of hand, would they be able to divert to an alternate airport to get you on the ground? The answer to both is a yes, as others have stated above.

It's good to have the answers to such questions, because anything that gives relief helps the problem--in fact, reduces the chance that the problem will ever pop up. And it may well be that a real anxiety attack, were it to happen to you on a plane, would not go on endlessly as you might imagine, but run its course in a few minutes...because we're just not wired for sustained anxiety.

In any case, thank you for joining us. There are a lot of people here who know what you are dealing with, and chances are that between us all, you can get all your questions answered...so ask away. Meanwhile, let's see if Mark can pull up that discussion on Ray's forum about onboard medical supplies and trained personnel. I took a quick look but couldn't find it.

Barb

[Passenger Mark]

Here is the thread from Ray's board in regards to medical emergencies on-board an airliner.

p197.ezboard.com/ffearofflying16582frm9.showMessage?topicID=69.topi c (http://p197.ezboard.com/ffearofflying16582frm9.showMessage?topicID=69.topi c)

[Jeff California]

How has zoloft helped you with your flying? Another anti-depressant "paxil" is supposed to be good for anxiety. It is my opinion that paxil should be added to drinking water. I have known many people who have benifited tremendously from the newer ssri's. I dont like xannax because it makes me feel loopy. I prefer a six pack of budweiser when I fly.:cheers

Welcome to the group. We are a very diverse group of people and we learn things from each other every day!

:welcome

Jeff

[Disney fan]

:welcome

Glad you found us!

Lynda

[beaugest]

I couldn't stop laughing at the idea of Paxil in the drinking water...:p
Of course all this meds talk though makes me feel that I have to go into my therapist mode...
There are many good drugs out there but they are only good if they work...(how profound,huh?). They really do have to be carefully matched to the individual to be effective. That's why if you feel one isn't doing what it should you should work with your Dr. to figure out a different course of treatment. Spiff can speak to this better(in her doctor mode) but you really need to let your Dr. know what does or doesn't help.
People often use an SSRI for long term to help with the overall anxiety. Then supplement with some kind of short acting agent when addressing a specific phobia. If ativan doesn't help ,you can try valium or xanax. Always try it first on the ground,safely in your house. You don't want to discover far from home that it makes you feel sick or out of it...
And,of course I really do have to add the don't drink while taking these meds warning. Jeff, I know a lot of folks drink while on meds and it sounds like you have figured out what your body can handle. But I have seen people get very,very ill from it. Without trying to sound like an alarmist ,it can be life threatening in certain situations...

[ChrisLynch]

Interestingly I spoke to a flight attendent on an international BMI flight about medical emergancies. The BMI planes are some of the best equipped in the sky and on this particalar airbus they even had a heart monitor on board. The FA's have trianing on how to use all the equipment on board so your in safe hands. Its no different to living in the country and being 30 miles from the nearest hospital in fact its safer as your home will not have the medical equipment an aircraft does, or anyone with medical training.

Chris

[CaptainStark]

firsttime,

Your concerns are common and welcome to a place where you can share with others who have dealt with similar issues. Your post reminded me that our biggest fear is of fear itself. Your imagination can transcend boring reality.

Welcome!

Ray

[spleisher]

Let me just add my welcome. We are an eclectic, fun group of folks that really try to have a good time while doing the serious work of helping people with their fears. If you have any questions at all, please feel free to ask away.

:welcome

Take care,
Scott

[firsttimeposting]

First of all, thanks Barb for that link to Les Posen's site. I thought it was wonderful!

For those that don't want to hear the difficulties of trying meds, don't read on.
I started out trying lexapro. My doc thought this would work cause my mom takes celexa and it is the same medicaiton properties. It is supposed to be nonsedating and even gives people some "energy." I instead was so sedated I had to take four hour naps and could not do anything without having to lie down every 15 min. Felt totally zoned out and couldn't function. So then I tried paxil. Paxil gave me night/cold sweats and my period stopped. So then I tried effexor which had the worst side effects. I had panic attacks for two weeks, waking up in the middle of the night with anxiety, always having the sweaty palms. Oh, also, through all of these medications, I never felt any better. So then finally came the zoloft. It so far is the most tolerable. I still have the night sweats but that is a harmless, just annoying side effect. I am starting to feel a little improvement, but of course all I've been through has made me a little skeptical about meds. That's why I probably don't feel any reassurance with being on an SSRI and having the ativan to use in special situations.

Just trying this site though has already made me feel better. Its good to know so many others have the same experience.
My question for Capt Ray and everyone else is, I see alot of responses of how medical services/emergency landings can get you to medical help in even 15 min. But how can this be accomplished when flying over the Pacific ocean? Also, does anyone know the frequency of panic attacks? For example, if I have one, will several come back within minutes or is there a point where the body chills out for the next day or so. Basically I'm wondering if I do have a panic attack on my 13 hr flight, I'd like to know if I can expect to have many more before I land.

[Disney fan]

Hi,

I have never had a panic attack, just severe anxiety!.

I have travelled to the US now around 14 times, that is 28 trips across the Atlantic plus a further trip to Mexico.

In my experience you cannot keep up the high levels of anxiety for that length of time. I in fact find the long flights better than the short ones. Once we have taken off my head seems to know that I am stuck on that plane for 9 -10 hrs and I just settle down after a short while.

I can now say I in fact get bored!! That is something I never thought I would be able to say.

I am still not at a stage where I can eat very much or watch a film but I CAN FLY!!!!!!!!

I have never taken meds to fly, I am a too much in control type person to that, I have however used Rescue remedy a herbal spray thing and found it helps.

Lynda

[Jeff California]

I am going to get slapped for this, but mixing xannax with alcohol is wonderful! Inhibits breathing.. bad for you... I know..

The lowest dose of xannax is .25 milligrams. I chop one of those in half and add a few beers. This transforms me from a scared man to a happy camper! I literally stand up on the plane and stretch with a big smile on my face after doing the above! hahaha

Call me stupid and risky, but it works for me.

As for Paxil and drinking water, I am serious. We would see road rage end. There would be a bunch of happy medicated people. The benefits outweigh the side effects by a million miles.

"So celebrate while you still can cause any second it may end. And when its all been said and done, better that you had some fun" Danny Elfman

"Theres someone in my head, and its not me" Pink Floyd

[Passenger Mark]

Naw Jeff... not going to slap your hands...

I have read here where others have done the same thing.

BUT... (and you knew this was coming)

Mixing meds such as Xanax and alcohol can be very dangerous, even fatal. Different people will react in different way. Also different forms of alcohol will react differently.

When I flew to England, I took a .5 Ativan about an hour prior to boarding. They were serving complimentary champagne. I really wanted to partake in this fancy-dancy international flight tradition. I tried to call my doc, but he was out, so I called my Pharmacist. I explained that I what I wanted to do. He said no problem to have one glass, but don't take it beyond that.

So... my advice is if this is something you want to try, ask your Doctor or Pharmacist. They may say one glass of beer or wine is no problem, they may tell you not to do it. Regardless, they are the experts, and know you best.

I really can't stress it enough to speak with your medical professional, not take anyone's else's advice. What may work fine for others, may be fatal to you!

One last note about meds on flights. Both my Doctor and Pharmacist told me to advised the FAs upon boarding that you are taking meds, and what they are.

One last time... ASK YOUR MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS!

Mark

[Jeff California]

D#mn.. I am a bad influence!

[beaugest]

I think your situation is a perfect example of what I am talking about with meds. I'll have a client come in asking for a particular med by name because someone they know swears by it. It may work,it may not. I'm glad to hear that you finally found one that seems to help. Sorry you had to go through all that though.
I'll let Ray or one of the flying folks handle the other questions but I might be able to help with the questions about anxiety.
Everyone is different in terms of frequency,length and intensity of attacks.
Now, I know that's not very helpful but...what that means is it helps for you to think carefully about your own patterns in regards to anxiety. What triggers the attacks for you,what works best for YOU in terms of reducing them. For some people distractions works beautifully, for other people it helps to face the anxiety head on,some people prefer to talk about it,others want to deal with it silently. There is no right way. So, the first thing is to think of your personality and what methods generally works for you.
While we are passengers on a plane we don't have a lot of control over the flying part but we do have control over how we will respond to the anxiety.
In addition to meds there are so many things we can do behaviorally to reduce the intensity and frequency of an attack. There are stress reduction exercises that work beautifully. The trick is to familiarize yourself with several because you want to catch the anxiety before you get to the full blown stage. I know it's not easy to do. I really do. But I have worked with clients that have come in with unbelievable amounts of anxiety. Very debilitating to their daily functioning. With hard and consistent work they have it well under control.
I agree with Lynda that people rarely have severe attacks for long durations. Even without working on it ,it usually doesn't stay at that kind of elevated level. So, once you work on it,you can really get it to a bearable level.
If you have trouble accessing info. on stress reduction or behavioral exercises ,let me know and I'll try to point you in the right direction
On the homepage under resources there are other sites that Barb,myself and others have put on there that you might find helpful. Also, read the testimonials page. I think you might find it very inspirational.
Sorry for the long winded response...I think I got a bit carried away here...:dragonslayer

[WillFlyToDisney2]

:deadhorse Jeff (best I could do for a "slap Jeff" smiley!)

:doh Or you could do this and slap yourself!

:boxer Or if you are REALLY being a bad influence we call in this guy!

Awww, you know we love you, Jeff. :hug

Kelley

[Amelia]

Have you ever heard of Karen Ann Quinlan? Probably not, but I lived in NJ and remember her case very well. She was only 21 years old when she mixed tranquilizers and alcohol. It was a well known right to die case. I found this link with a little bit of information:

www.who2.com/karenannquinlan.html (http://www.who2.com/karenannquinlan.html)

Please be careful. You're using the combination of drugs and tranquilizers because of your fear of flying. Think about it...you're taking a much bigger risk by mixing the drugs and alcohol than just getting on the plane. But you're combining the two and the plane would have to make an emergency landing if you ran into trouble...I know Ray says he could get the plane on the ground pretty quickly, but is it worth the risk?
Amelia

[CaptainStark]

First,

The reality exists that, on an extended overwater flight, the crew may opt not to divert to drop you off because of weather at the divert location or other conditions. Overwater carriers have their own rules on that and I am not privy to them. I suggest you try out a few shorter domestic flights and see if those are manageable.

Ray:ray

[Jeff California]

Hi Amelia, I appreciate the concern. I have no valid argument, so I will refrain from commenting further.

I took a college course on "death and dying" and we studied Karen Q's case. The case actually encouraged me to fill out and file a medical directive.

Jeff