South America

[spiffyone]

Captain Hutch, I'll chime in with a question I have been wondering about for a while. I expect to fly to Bogota sometime next winter. Several major airlines fly there (Continental, American, Delta, as well as Avianca - a Colombian airline that I have heard good things about). It looks like it will either be about 6-7 hours nonstop from JFK, or two 3-4 hour flights if we stop in Miami or Houston.
I haven't flown out of the U.S. yet and am wondering how things work from an air traffic control perspective. I imagine our flight will travel over the Caribbean and potentially some of Central America before landing in Bogota. How does it work when planes get passed off from country to country? Is it all in English (I think I remember that all ATC is, worldwide)? Is there away for a pilot at JFK at 11 am to know what the weather will be like in Bogota (and points between) 4-5 hours later?
Feel free to chime in, anyone who might know - the flight is months away, but I have been wondering about these things....

spiffyone

[Barb-SAN]

Feel free to chime in, anyone who might know - the flight is months away, but I have been wondering about these things....

spiffyone

I'm sure Captain Hutch will have more to say about this, but if you want to listen to Bogota ATC yourself, you can find the transmission at this link. http://www.liveatc.net/feedindex.php?type=international (Bogota #2 is coming in clearer on my computer than #1). All transmissions that I've heard in the last 15 minutes have been in Spanish. I believe the controllers are required to KNOW English...but practically speaking, if you are in a Spanish speaking country...and most of the people flying in the airspace speak Spanish as a first language, it seems safer to me that they are speaking Spanish. I would imagine that if you are flying Avianca, your pilot will also be fluent in Spanish.

I'd be curious to know what language requirements there are for U.S. pilots who fly international routes to Mexico, Central, and S. America (or Asia or Africa, for that matter). It seems to me that there would be an extra margin of safety if the English-speaking pilots could also understand the Spanish ATC transmissions going on around them in that airspace.

We had a long discussion here about this issue awhile ago after a mid-air crash in Brazil that left a couple U.S. pilots alive but in detention there for some months. Faulty communication may have been part of the problem. Haven't heard recently how that was all resolved, except that the pilots were allowed to return to the U.S.

[Captain Hutch]

Hi Spiffyone,

It is nice to meet you, and thank you for your good questions. Yes, English is the international language and the controllers are required to know it. As Barb-SAN pointed out, however, the accents can be a factor and both the pilot and controller need to be careful to use standard phrases for communication. Also as Barb-SAN pointed out, if the pilot checks in on a new radio frequency speaking Spanish then a native Spanish speaking controller will most likely respond in Spanish and continue in that language. Barb-SAN, thank you for that link, I will check it out. The different sectors of airspace that you will fly through to your destination are controlled by centers and the airspace around the airports is governed by approach controllers. You will be passed from center to center. For instance, if you fly out of JFK your flight will be passed from New York Center, to Washington Center, Jacksonville Center, Miami Center, possibly Havana Center if your route takes you over Cuban airspace, and then other Centers with which I am unfamiliar. Havana Center has a few extra requirements for flying through its airspace but for the most part it is routine. Usually each Center has a high and low sector and several radio frequencies within each sector that are used when a flight passes through that sector. There are no regulations requiring US pilots to know any language other than English.

Pilots are given the current weather for their destination at the time of takeoff and the forecast weather for the estimated time of arrival. Additionally we can call up the current and forecast weather for any destination while in flight. Where summer weather is concerned, however, thunderstorms can be very unpredictable, and more so in the afternoon than in the morning. Personally I recommend leaving as early as you can in the morning if you want to avoid delays. I know every traveler desires a predictable flight, but literally what happens is this: thunderstorms can form along your route or out in front of your route such that where 20 minutes ago the pilot could fly direct now he needs to deviate to avoid flying through a storm. Despite some of the turbulence you may have experienced on a previous flight, flying through a thunderstorm is extremely rare (so rare I have never heard of it happening). Our weather radars are very good at “painting” the storms even while we are in the clouds and have no visual clue as to where the storm might be and therefore are easy to steer around. Now, however, what happens is that as soon as some aircraft start deviating from their regular route, the ripple effect is that the center controller has to move other aircraft from their route, and soon you have the centers calling the airports and telling them to hold departing flights on the ground since what is left of their airspace is saturated. Storms do move, and soon they are out of your way and into someone else’s way, so the situation is rather fluid. It is not uncommon for large lines of thunderstorms to develop to a point where the pilot cannot get through or does not have enough fuel to circumnavigate the storms and must return to the departure airport or an alternate airport.

Have a great trip and let us know how it went! :tiphat:

Captain Hutch

[spiffyone]

Thanks for the info. I was wondering about Cuban airspace in particular :)

We're actually probably going this winter (date still TBA), but I understand thunderstorms can be an issue in Colombia at any time of year (they have these "rainy seasons" that don't really correspond to spring, summer, fall, etc).

I'll keep you posted!

[Captain Hutch]

I'm glad we could give you some useful info.

Let us know how your flight goes. :) :)

Captain Hutch

[Invert]

Thanks Captain Hutch!
I actually had a similar question since I will be flying to Thailand in about a month. We are flying United so I assumed the crew would be english speaking...but wondered about the Thai controllers.
Thanks for the info!

[Captain Hutch]

Hi Invert,

Yes, I am fairly certain that the Thai controllers would be using English on international flights at least. Let me know how your trip goes, I thinking about going to Thailand next year myself!

Hutch :tiphat: