Newsflash! Rebooking for Monday!

[cshollingsworth]

Hi all,

At first, I was not going to post this message here, but right now, I am in need of a good shoulder to cry on.

This morning Don and I woke up at the Red Roof to the sound of thunder and rain. The t.v. weather was talking about tornadoes in the area and how tough the weather was supposed to be in and around Nashville this morning.

My anxiety was gradually going up and up and up.

I showered, tried to get ready, rode to the airport with Don, kissed him goodbye and left. That's right gang...I couldn't do it. It got the best of me today and I let it.

Don called and said they had a good flight all but a tad bit of a rough landing. So, he's in Philadelphia and I'm sitting here still contemplating how on earth I let the fear command my life in the way it did this morning. I miss Don, I feel like I should be there. I mean, I'm not happy here. Just saying, "I'm not flying" doesn't instantly make me feel better. I still worry. I feel guilt. I want to find a way to get there, but no way am I getting on another bus. That was insane the first time and I know better now. Buses are not safe. The people on them are scary and I just don't have the nerve to do it again.

I looked into flying tomorrow, but Don says Philly weather is calling for storms and gusty wind tomorrow. I don't know guys and gals...:cry: There is seemingly no hope for me.

The good news, I have a husband that is understanding enough to tell me not to get upset and he accepts that I have FoF and that I do at least "try" to go on trips. Tonight he said that next time (February) we will simply make other travel arrangements so I can go and enjoy myself. He is really good about this, but it doesn't make us magically be together. Apart for 5 days is not that long, I know...but I was simply supposed to be there.

I feel like such an idiot.

OK, so who's flying tomorrow with me? John...you for hire? Jeff-BNA? :rolleyes: I think we should have rent-a-seatmate on here. I mean, someone experienced in flight that could talk us fearfuls all the way through a flight. :sigh:

[aurora30]

Hi there,

You may not know me, I have been on this board on and off for a couple of years....

You did what you could at the moment, you tried... and that's what really matters. I know that the outcome is not what you want, but keep trying... don't give up. You will succeed:) Don seems to be very understanding, that's really awesome!

I have a 12-hour flight to Switzerland in 6 weeks, my family lives there. Lately I feel like I can't do it. The lenght of the flight scares me, although I have done it before. My issue is turbulence and claustrophobia :eek:

I just wanted to let you know that I can completely relate, I know how this feels. Given the weather conditions in your area, you still went to the airport and you gave it your best! that's what matters!

Aurora:thumbsup:

[cshollingsworth]

I appreciate your kind words. I did really try. I know I did, but it's never enough when the outcome is like this. Then I have to go back to work and make up some excuse as to why I'm there when I'm supposed to be gone. You know, it's all embarrassing.

I looked at the weather map for tomorrow and they are predicting severe storms in Philadelphia for tomorrow and tomorrow night. So, my thoughts on "trying" again tomorrow are pretty well null at this time. If I wait until Monday to try again, then I will only have 2 days up there in PA and then a trip back on Wednesday. Probably, it would be a good thing to fly that close together. Just to get used to it. Either that or sufficiently give me a heart attack. :(

It's really tough giving up like this. I don't deal well with failure, never did, never will, and now I'm most certainly classifying myself as a big flop. It is very fortunate for me to have a husband that understands. He says he sees me in my daily life as confident and collected, but he says he knows that for whatever reason, flying just really hits my panic button. He jokingly says if I ever get into any type of trouble, they should just sentence me to having to fly daily. Hmmph...well, at least he can find humor in this. I sure wish I could.

[Barb-SAN]

Courtney
So, Courtney, my advice is to find a deadheading pilot for your flight and sit next to him for the questions throughout the flight. Who cares if he's a little annoyed-it's part of our job description!

Hmmm this is very interesting advice. How does one go about requesting to sit next to a DH pilot?:blush: Maybe we need another TF letter?:angel: :) I suppose it depends on whether or not you are flying SWA or have preassigned seating on another airline....

[cshollingsworth]

I honestly don't think that a pilot would knowingly land anywhere that the weather was not good. I really don't think that. Here is the thing that eats at me...and it is truly the "what if" scenario. What if weather is looking pretty decent to land, there are some weather issues around the area, plane goes in for a landing, wind gusts suddenly, or maybe lightning smacks the plane...stuff goes wrong...

Hmm...logically, I know this is sounding more and more like a B-movie as it comes out of my mouth.

I guess there is just nothing else for me to say other than I need to just admit I have a problem and that I can't get over it. Flying seems to spark anxiety in me that lays dorment otherwise. I have no clue what brings this out but something most certainly does.

[VantageUK]

You're very lucky to have a good man who understands the whole FofF "thing".

Know what you're going through. My wife to be is in NY now and I'm stuck in the rain in the UK. Told her I was too busy to go with her, she knew what I meant and didn't make an issue out of it.

You had your reasons for not flying like we all have here. Don't feel guilty. Like you said, he understands.

You'll do it without doubt but maybe not yet that's all.

Good luck to you and yours

Charlie.

[Barb-SAN]

Courtney....Here's the group hug as requested...;) :grouphug: .

I'm sorry that you didn't get on that plane this morning, but I really do understand. I'm not sure I could have done it either if there were tornados forecast. All of my flights since I started flying again have been in good weather, and I do have fears of flying in thunderstorms and experiencing severe turbulence.

That's part of the reason I've been posting questions and screen shots about various types of weather in Capt. Ray's forum, in an attempt to understand just where the pilots fly in thunderstorms.

Here's a screen shot I took a few minutes ago of BNA...have you used the Flight Aware program to watch the weather radar and the planes? You can watch them and see just how they avoid the most severe weather.

Ray posted a picture of what the radar looked like in his cockpit when there was a thunderstorm cell...a good reminder that the pilots can see where the worst of the weather is, and avoid it.

I suppose you will weigh all the pros and cons of what to do next. There are certainly advantages of trying again on Monday, especially if the weather has improved. You wouldn't have to go to work, for one, since you already have the time off. :D

Each time you back out of a flight, you make it harder to take the next one, as you have rewarded yourself (decreased your anxiety) by bailing. So...even if your time in PA is short, it would be worthwhile to have the flying experience. And, you will have Don waiting at the other end of the flight, and he'll be flying home with you.

There are so many practical suggestions from folks here on the board as far as specific techniques to reduce anxiety, which I'm sure you've read...I think we all need to experiment to find out which ones are personally most effective. Bottom line is that it takes flying frequently, calmly, to desensitize to the whole flying experience. If it were easy to get over this fear, there would be no need for support groups!

I certainly hope you will give it a go on Monday, or even Tuesday...even if it's only to fly to Philly and come right back. And maybe track tomorrow on FlightAware and watch how the planes deal with severe weather?

Good luck...and know that you can do it. That would be VERY cool if you could find a pilot to sit next to you and explain things the entire flight. There might also be an FA deadheading, if you didn't find a pilot.

One other thought...I remember you were very upset on 9/11 after watching TV coverage all day. I know that in some ways it seems patriotic to watch those programs, and think of the people who died that day. BUT, for those of us with anxiety issues....(and I think many people became more fearful of flying after 9/11), I think it is very important to be aware of how media images can lurk in our unconscious and cause problems later. We each need to decide for ourselves how much of that we can tolerate (whether it be TV news coverage, movies, or whatever).

When you were in San Diego, I remember it was the crash between two Cessnas the day before your flight home that caused a panic in the hours right before your flight. I remember that because I had a Cessna lesson that day...and refused to watch the crash coverage AT ALL on the TV, or look at pictures in the newspapers. It was enough information that it had happened, and a reminder to watch for traffic when flying. But I don't think it is beneficial to visualize disasters.

Think of the Olympic athletes...they don't imagine themselves goofing up when they perform...they imagine being WINNERS!:thumbsup: So, I hope you can imagine yourself boarding that plane with confidence...and making your man, and yourself, proud!;)

[cshollingsworth]

I couldn't sleep most all night last night for just thinking and still kicking myself for staying behind. Of course, it stormed all night here too and rained to the point of some flash flooding and so it was all a very stressful time for me.

This morning I called Don early to see if he was off on any company sponsored tour. He was on the one we were supposed to be on together, the one to Atlantic City. Neither of us had ever been there, but had thought it might be fun to go. So, there he was on a tour bus full of other people from the other telephone companies all heading down for some fun in Jersey. And yeah, here I sit at home, with a cloudy, dreary sky and an empty house, a suitcase that is still packed in the car...what a huge disappointment that I really am.

Kari, you are right, I am beating myself up. And I know that I should, I also know that the longer I go between flights, the worse this gets.

I really think the weather factor yesterday was what got to me so badly. I was seeing lighting bolts go from the cloud to the ground and the rain was nothing short of a downpour. You could not see to drive. Then the talk of the tornadoes just outside of Nashville. My heart was beating so fast I didn't think it would slow down.

There were days before this trip I was so calm. I was excited about going. I had put off worrying to the last minute. I thought that was a good thing. I really did. I figured that I could do it, such a short flight. I could make it. Never once did I see myself backing out of the trip. I thought the 1 time that happened was the last and I would never let that fear pop back up again. But then the whole weather thing. I started thinking about the plane that crashed in a storm (this was in another country recently) and the people that made it out were jumping out the exit door to the ground and having to run through the mud to get away. Like Barb-SAN said, media images sometimes come back to haunt, and that one sure did yesterday.

I'd worried because the plane was an older version too. So between weather and older plane, I wasn't having the best of gut feelings yesterday.

I know pilots know what they are doing. They are highly skilled people and they have their lives on the line too and don't want to do anything to put themselves in danger. I know all of that. Those men and women flying the plane are going to do what they need to do in order to take care of themselves and us as well.

But why can't I relinquish my trust and faith in that? I can't "give up the reigns" as a friend told me once. This usually comes out when a group of teachers are sent to a meeting. It's rare that I want to ride with a group. I normally want to drive myself. I don't mind driving other people, but I want to be the one doing the driving. I can't just sit in the backseat and trust someone else to take me anywhere. I have to be the one in control. And I know, I know...we are not totally in control of any situation. I know that.

If I could basically just "know" what is going on behind the doors...I'd be fine. But there is no way to do that. I can't sit there and know there are no warning lights going off in the cockpit, I can't tell if they are up there eating a banana or if they are having to fight every second to keep the plane up in the air.

My return flight from San Diego was really good. We had a pilot who I talked to very briefly when I boarded. I told he and one of the FA's I was their fearful flier for the day and then I said, "If you can maybe tell us where we are occassionally, that really seems to help me." So, the pilot actually did that. About every 30 minutes he came on and said where we were located and how many miles we had to go to BNA. He was really great about it. I figured if he had time to tell us that, then he wasn't up there fighting for our lives. And so, once every 30 minutes, I felt a wave of relief come over me. That is what got me home despite being scared out of my bejeebers.

This morning my husband said he had talked with his sister and that he had told her that I hadn't made the trip. She flies everywhere, internationally and the works. She said she just "doesn't think about what she's doing" and that does the trick for her. Wish it were that simple for me, but it's not. I could tell he was eluding to the point she was disappointed in me for not going. I'm dissapointed too. Don said that he was hoping I could surprise him and get there, even if it were tomorrow. I told him I wished that too, but I knew that going back to the airport would be like asking me to jump off a cliff and kill myself and I didn't think I could do it alone. I mean, let's face it...if I can't get on the plane with my husband, I can't get on it alone.

So, that's my dilemma. I've read some sticky's on here, even again last night, they all make sense on dealing with stress. I've got all the stuff it talks about having, the iPod, the gameboy, the books, the magizines, the snacks...all of it. But I'm still in that stage where if I look at food on a plane, I choke. I can't eat. Heck, I haven't ate much since yesterday at all.

You know what's the worst of this? Being afraid that my husband is going to be sitting with some nice person on a plane who isn't afraid to fly and maybe him regretting that he married me in the first place. He travels a lot, and rather enjoys it, and here I am...like a big moron that can't force herself on an airplane.

:cry:

[Passenger Mark]

Courtney,

I have done EXACTLY what you did, and know EXACTLY how you feel!

You want to know the secret???

Call SWA, put yourself on the 7:30 PM flight tonight, and go.

Don't worry about what kind of plane it is. (They will not fly something unsafe)

Don't worry about the weather. (They will not fly or land if it is not safe)

Get on the plane, sit down, and in 1.5 hours, you will be there!

Group hug from me as well :grouphug:

Hugging, understanding, but telling you to go get on that plane!
</IMG>Because I have been there, and know what it is going to take!

P.S. If you don't go, I will NOT be ashamed of you... but I will NEVER tell you to not go if you don't feel like it.

[cshollingsworth]

Thanks for your reply...I'm glad you won't be ashamed of me if I don't go, because as you probably suspect, it "ain't gonna happen."

I sat down to try to talk with my mom by phone this morning. Normally, my mother has always been all about building me up to go...very supportive and encouraging, but this time, she's not. She says, "If you have a problem, you have a problem. Just stop fighting it and say you can't fly." The last time I flew, right before I got on the plane, she was saying how awesome it is that I can travel with my husband and it not cost us anything, that I'm lucky to have the opportunities and she was always saying, "If it were me, I'd be on the plane in a second." So, she would give me just enough of a little boost to get me there.

However, this time, she's not telling me to go. I think she's even given up on me. I think she feels like I should just stop because the fear never subsides within me. No matter what I've done, it never goes away. She knows I've tried to learn things about flying, read Ray's book, stayed on TF so many hours in the last year, tried to get a fascination for planes, the works. She, like my husband knows that I've tried. And I'm a failure at this thing, I think everyone is ready to admit that.

I'm sitting here right now in my office at home. I'm surrounded by things that tell me I'm not stupid...3 college degrees on the wall, a Phi Kappa Phi lifetime membership award...I'm not "backward." I'm capable of learning, and learning rather well apparently. But I'm afraid of flying.

I really appreciate all of you here on this board. You all have been patient and understanding and you've given me hope and courage when I sure didn't have it myself. But you know what? I honestly think this is the breaking point for me. The time when I have to say that I just simply give up and can try no more. Why put myself through such self-inflicted misery any longer? Once Don comes home from this trip, and our life gets back to normal, there will be no more planes for me. No more attempts either. If Don is as understanding as he says he is, then we'll make other arrangements on our travel, be it drive or go by train. If it means taking more days off work, I can do that too. I take off without pay anyway. I just have to stop lying to myself and saying I can do something in which I know I can't. Maybe if you drugged me and put me on the plane and I was knocked completely out in a deep sleep, maybe then I could do it...right now, it's not likely to happen.

[noflyingfan]

I sat down to try to talk with my mom by phone this morning. Normally, my mother has always been all about building me up to go...very supportive and encouraging, but this time, she's not. She says, "If you have a problem, you have a problem. Just stop fighting it and say you can't fly."

I'm going a little against the grain here, but I tend to agree. I see what Mark is saying when he says book the flight and just go; doing so is the only way you're REALLY going to get over your fear. But if you're not ready to do that just yet, then you're not ready.

BUT

I don't think you should say, "I don't fly" and let that be it. Say, "I'm not going to fly till I'm ready," and do everything you can to MAKE yourself ready. Study up on flight, keep posting here and continue to ask the questions you've been asking. And in a few months, book a flight, and get on that plane.

You're going to make it, Courtney. Don't beat yourself up too much for backing out, but don't do it again. You cannot give yourself the option to back out.

[cshollingsworth]

I thought I would be ready to fly. I really did. Honest. I had studied, and learned things. But maybe I have a mental disorder or something. Who knows? Something has to be wrong with me in order for me to be this scared.

Right now, you all should see me. I've been in my pajamas since yesterday. Just laying on the couch and doing nothing. The house is clean and quiet as no one is even supposed to be here at all. I tiptoe through the house to not disturb anything and I don't much feel like eating.

I think I'm in depression. For the first time in my life, I really consider this to be depression. I've cried, I've not slept, I've kicked my rear over and over. I've been mad, disappointed, mad at Don for going to Atlantic City without me, but fully knowing I deserve all of what I'm getting at the moment.

My latest thought, instead of running to the airport to get on a plane, is to just get in the car and go somewhere driveable and take my own, mini-vacation just simply in order to not beat myself out of some morsel of fun. Which, I doubt when I got there, I would be having much fun by myself anyway.

It's chilly and gloomy here today, which makes for fine weather to be depressed in. I think I'm going back to bed.

[cshollingsworth]

Well, my husband has phoned yet again. He's walking on the boardwalk in Atlantic City at the moment. Sounds to be having a good time. Only adds insult to injury.

[Passenger Mark]

You know in the cartoon when a little light bulb goes off over someone's head?

I just had one of those go off over my head!

Back in California in 1995-1997 I dated Nancy. She is a teacher also, First Grade in a Lutheran School.

VERY INTELLIGIANT, and VERY SHARP. She also was not backwards.

Spoke four languages fluently, English, Spanish, German, and Italian.

She had a Fear of Flying. At the time, I did not. We took some flights together to Salt Lake, Washington DC, etc. She was a wreck. It was the only time I have saw her in this condition.

She solved everything by learning about it, reading, searching, etc. She did the same with flying. But she would get frustrated because she could not "grasp" the whole concept. Frustrated because she was not use to not conquering the things she did not know about.

The light bulb went off, because you Courtney are much like Nancy.

Courtney, I watched your posts in the days leading up to your flight. You asked a lot of questions, good questions. But I got the feeling then that you were trying to get 100% knowledge about everything to do with commercial air travel. To do that it would take YEARS of school, training, etc. It just can't be done.

You have to let go, live and let live, and trust. As someone once told me, "Mark, You want a 100% guarantee that nothing is going to happen, you can't have that."

You are very intelligent, that is obvious, but it is also that intelligence, quest for knowledge, and need to understand it all that is holding you back.

Now, I told you that I would not be disappointed if you did not go... (this time) But it is not like you to write something off all together.

Are you really going to let the monster beat you, or are you going to let it have this round, and come back to beat it another day?

That is your choice!

[Barb-SAN]

Courtney,

I understand that you want to just give up on this thing. But, maybe expecting yourself to fly bravely in tornado weather was just too big a step for you right now. Desensitization happens in increments...and it is possible to lick this fear if you keep working at it. It sounds like you have not found the "key" that works for you yet. Or, perhaps you just need to start flying a lot of short trips (like every weekend), on short notice, only when the weather conditions are ideal, so that you can first just deal with flying, and not worry about the weather and turbulence.

Perhaps working (in person) with a therapist specializing in anxiety issues and fear of flying, would be effective. It would also be hard work, much more so than participating on Taking Flight. The reality is that you have to face fears and will feel some level of anxiety as you do a feared activity, and do it often enough that it becomes routine, and boring.

Learning to calm yourself in the face of the feared situation is the key skill to learn, so that you know your emotions won't spiral into a full-fledged panic attack. Yoga, breathwork, progressive muscle relaxation, and biofeedback were all helpful to me, though I'm a long ways from "mastery". For those of us who are "tightly wired" (and I think my physiology is similar to yours)...it is really a life-time commitment to some kind of exercise or yoga to keep our baseline stress level down. I wish I'd started yoga in my 20's....but better late than never.

I know what it's like to "give up", as I grounded myself for 13 years, and simply missed out on family get-togethers, class reunions, funerals, and overseas vacations. This seems hard to believe in someone who traveled all over in her 20's (Europe, Hawaii, Latin America, etc). Now that I'm flying again...I wonder how my life would have been different in those 13 years had I not refused to fly.

The fact that you have 3 college degrees is certainly an indication that you're smart enough to learn academic material, solve problems, and have the tenacity to study subject areas that interest you, do papers, take tests, follow through and earn the degree, etc. It seems like with sufficient motivation (Don traveling with some other, unfearful woman is a scary one, :cry: but if it works.....) you have the capability of tackling this issue and working on it like it was another college degree. And when you are done, you will be an expert on all aspects of fear of flying....and maybe it will be the start of a new career....:eek:.

Taking ground school at your community college would be a start:coffee: ...then you would have an idea what those pilots are doing behind the closed cockpit door. :D (been there, done that ;) ...really interesting too...though the ground school I attended was given through the aerospace museum).

Ultimately....giving up or conquering this fear will also affect your self-image...and how you deal with other fears and challenges that arise throughout your life. Whew....:hug:

[StPeteMark]

...But you know what? I honestly think this is the breaking point for me. The time when I have to say that I just simply give up and can try no more. Why put myself through such self-inflicted misery any longer? Once Don comes home from this trip, and our life gets back to normal, there will be no more planes for me. No more attempts either. If Don is as understanding as he says he is, then we'll make other arrangements on our travel, be it drive or go by train. If it means taking more days off work, I can do that too. I take off without pay anyway. I just have to stop lying to myself and saying I can do something in which I know I can't. Maybe if you drugged me and put me on the plane and I was knocked completely out in a deep sleep, maybe then I could do it...right now, it's not likely to happen.
Sorry, but I can't agree with you here. Why, because a long time ago I too gave up and kept such an attitude for 15+ years. Oh, I had your excuses/rationalizations and more. Now I strongly regret I didn't keep pushing myself ... limiting vacations and occasional work trips to ground travel made for a small world and limited experiences. I needed, as I think you need, long-term therapy to work-out this phobia/panic/anxiety problem. Since what I have, panic/anxiety disorder. is a physical condition where nerve endings short circuit in the brain, medication was and is still needed...just like a heart or any other organ condition.

When all this started, I didn't have the tools currently available including the Internet and support websites like Taking Flight. With intensive therapy and daily visits to Internet boards, I got back in the air using step-by-step mental processes. I keep getting back in the air every chance I can. REPETITION is key here for many phobics. For flying, take short flights on weekends to anywhere when you don't have an agenda...fly somewhere, have fun, spend the night, and fly back the next day. Then, when there is pressure for business or any other purpose, it's no big deal. You just get on the plane and fly just like you did the last dozen times. You get past the worrying stages, as you have done with driving after getting your license.

My put my burden on my wife during my grounded years and she didn't complain. I missed several of her family reunions because they required flying to the location. BUT, I'll tell you now, she is extremely delighted I have worked my way back into flight.

I can assure you that if you truly give up now, you will forever regret your decision!

SPMark
.

[cshollingsworth]

I believe it is most certainly anxiety that causes all of this turmoil for me. I mean, it has to be some type of anxiety disorder. But, I thought for it to be that, it would show up at other times in my life? How does it lay there and sleep until the mention of a plane?

You guys are right, I need a therapist for anxiety issues. I know this. I had some form of anxiety when I worked at the middle school which I just transferred from. My boss was a jerk. She made me so nervous I could hardly stand to walk past her in the hall because of her glarring looks she gave us all. She was intense. She scared off 7 people last year from that school who asked for transfers.

Anyway, I have always been wired pretty tight. "High strung" as my family used to say. But, it often times came out more in a passion to get things done and get them done right. Not in a panicky type mode.

Mark, I would say yes, Nancy and I have something in common. And I don't believe I'm grasping the flight thing 100% either and maybe that is what bugs me silly, adding onto my nervousness.

[cshollingsworth]

Hey everybody...

Here is some NEWS...

After a long discussion with my mother (who likes flying btw) she said that she will go up with me tomorrow and stay until we come back on Wednesday.

For one, I think she's bored and just wanted out of the house. Two, I think she feels like I'm just going to sit at home and cry and if she doesn't go with me, she'll be the one to have to listen to me moan and groan for 4 more days.

I am STILL scared! I can't help it...I am, and I'm being honest in saying so.

But, tomorrow the weather is due to clear off in both locations. I am hoping it is not stormy between here and there. SOOOOO...keep me in your thoughts please!!!

I am off now to try and call ticketing and get her a ticket and me a seat on the same flight first thing in the morning.

I'm sooooo NERVOUS!!! (and a little excited)

[Barb-SAN]

Mark, I would say yes, Nancy and I have something in common. And I don't believe I'm grasping the flight thing 100% either and maybe that is what bugs me silly, adding onto my nervousness.

That fundamental understanding of flight is what you would "grasp" if you took flying lessons...:angel: I've actually closed my eyes during turbulence on the commercial jets, and pretended I was flying in the Cessna and getting bounced around, and remembering how we didn't really drop very much before we were heading up again. :) :airplane:

[Passenger Mark]

Mark, I would say yes, Nancy and I have something in common. And I don't believe I'm grasping the flight thing 100% either and maybe that is what bugs me silly, adding onto my nervousness.

Awwww... that is what I am talking about.

Listen, Like I said... I did not use to have Fear of Flying. I use to get on a plane like I would get in a car. On, fly, off, go! That simple.

Then for work I was flying once a week, which turned into two times a week, and finally three-four times a week.

I flew some crazy routes for a passenger.

Ontario to Vegas to Phoenix, and back to Ontario. (in one day) I did that route at least twice a week for several months.

Then there was the Ontario, Nashville, Cleveland, then the next day Cleveland, Kansas City, Sacramento. Then the next day Sacramento to Ontario. I did that deal for several months as well.

Anyways... I was on a plane a bunch, and began thinking "what if". That is when it got me... just got to thinking about it too much, and 9-11 rolled around about the same time, and I really began trying to get guarantees, and then the next thing I knew... I could not fly! Or would not fly.

Till I finally said screw this! I am flying... I am not going to be stuck!

As I said... Unless you are going to completely change careers, and train as a pilot, air traffic controller, aircraft mechanic, and guru of all aviation knowledge... you are never going to get a 100% all knowing of everything to do with commercial air travel.

You are going to have to accept that, and just realize that the professionals know what they are doing.

I have to get one last push in... the weather in Nashville is improving by the hour. The sun is out as I type!

[cshollingsworth]

Mark,

OMG...I just booked and paid for my ticket and my mom's. Mark! This is ON!

[Barb-SAN]

And are you flying today or tomorrow? :thumbsup: for your Mom, and YOU! Now you two MUST meet the pilots today before your flight!

[Passenger Mark]

Hey everybody...

Here is some NEWS...

After a long discussion with my mother (who likes flying btw) she said that she will go up with me tomorrow and stay until we come back on Wednesday.

For one, I think she's bored and just wanted out of the house. Two, I think she feels like I'm just going to sit at home and cry and if she doesn't go with me, she'll be the one to have to listen to me moan and groan for 4 more days.

I am STILL scared! I can't help it...I am, and I'm being honest in saying so.

But, tomorrow the weather is due to clear off in both locations. I am hoping it is not stormy between here and there. SOOOOO...keep me in your thoughts please!!!

I am off now to try and call ticketing and get her a ticket and me a seat on the same flight first thing in the morning.

I'm sooooo NERVOUS!!! (and a little excited)


That's great news Courtney!

I merge the thread with the Newsflash into this one so we can keep it in order.

Now... I am going to give you some hints... Please take them!

1. DO NOT watch the weather channel. They are flying the plane... not you.
2. Quit tracking the flight. You have in the past, and they have ALL done fine.

Go and do something enjoyable today. The weather is improving... so get outside!

[Barb-SAN]

As I said... Unless you are going to completely change careers, and train as a pilot, air traffic controller, aircraft mechanic, and guru of all aviation knowledge... you are never going to get a 100% all knowing of everything to do with commercial air travel.

You are going to have to accept that, and just realize that the professionals know what they are doing.



Mark, I totally agree that you are not going to know 100% of all those jobs unless you go to school and get the necessary training. HOWEVER, (and I'm probably a lot like your friend Nancy), I found the knowledge I've gained about how everything works together to be enormously helpful to me in dealing with FF. And...I also appreciate even more the knowledge and skill that all those working in aviation possess. Ultimately, it's helped me to relax and let them do their jobs, and have some faith that "everything is going to be all right.":D

[aerobat]

Courtney said:

I've tried to learn things about flying, read Ray's book, stayed on TF so many hours in the last year, tried to get a fascination for planes, the works. She, like my husband knows that I've tried. And I'm a failure at this thing, I think everyone is ready to admit that.

ah, think again...:)

St. Pete Mark said:

I got back in the air using step-by-step mental processes. I keep getting back in the air every chance I can. REPETITION is key here for many phobics. For flying, take short flights on weekends to anywhere when you don't have an agenda...fly somewhere, have fun, spend the night, and fly back the next day.

Mark used a structured program we don't refer to here, but dangit, it works. And so do other excellent methods that we do offer pathways to here, and stickies about here. :nod:

Passenger Mark said:

You have to let go, live and let live, and trust. As someone once told me, "Mark, You want a 100% guarantee that nothing is going to happen, you can't have that."

Right on! And once you learn to take control of your belligerent brain, you don't have to have that 100% guarantee!

Courtney said:

I thought I would be ready to fly. I really did. Honest. I had studied, and learned things. But maybe I have a mental disorder or something. Who knows? Something has to be wrong with me in order for me to be this scared.

Ahem. :)

DebbieLev said:

It's going to happen for you, Courtney. But you've got to help it along.

Help it along, as in accept that there may be something important you are not doing and it's time to do it. And it takes work. :thumbsup: Deb's another successful grad of a structured anti-anxiety program.

Barb-SAN said:

Learning to calm yourself in the face of the feared situation is the key skill to learn, so that you know your emotions won't spiral into a full-fledged panic attack. Yoga, breathwork, progressive muscle relaxation, and biofeedback were all helpful to me, though I'm a long ways from "mastery". For those of us who are "tightly wired" (and I think my physiology is similar to yours)...it is really a life-time commitment to some kind of exercise or yoga to keep our baseline stress level down. I wish I'd started yoga in my 20's....but better late than never.

Barb also used said unsaid program, in combination with other great techniques. She choreographed her own therapy and did the work. :tiphat:

The other Barb (me) is gonna say:

Courtney, there is a hippopotamus :troll: (or something equally large and problematic) in your living room :eek: , and you are not noticing.

I am not a therapist and therapists should not diagnose from afar, but you have dared to speculate "maybe I have a mental disorder or something".

I am going to boldly and annoyingly suggest that you take that thought farther, and explore it. It's OK to do that, and there should be no shame in it. And as you explore it, also explore a site like anxieties.com which can explain to you what anxiety disorders are!

And...how one gets them, how one gets over them or learns to minimize them. How one masters specific techniques for taking control of one's brain chemistry and runaway B movie.

I had an anxiety disorder, make no mistake. And after decades of denial I explored it and got help, and I got over it. These things are amazingly easy to fix once one owns up to them, names them, and gets training in banishing them.

Courtney, in all my dialogue with you in the past, I have tried to impress on you the specific nature of the anti-anxiety work required--at least for some people-- to beat this fear, and you have politely ignored me.

There's a hippopotamus in your living room.

You are not a failure at booting him out, because you haven't tried. If you don't want to listen to me, that's cool (but maybe you should; I know whereof I speak, even if I come across as pushy and clinical). Listen to what the other folks here are saying; listen to what you yourself are saying!! No--not the woe-is-me-doomed-to-failure litany...listen to the part that's about to wake up, because sometimes we need to be so utterly disappointed in ourselves that we finally hit bottom and wake up!!!

Barb :)

[Barb-SAN]

Now that Mark has said not to watch the weather channel...I'd already gone to www.weather.com (http://www.weather.com) for the weather, and since you aren't flying until Monday, I think it's fair enough to post it. Because, you should have good flying weather...the front will have moved through, and there's no chance of rain on Tuesday when you return. Go get em!!:thumbsup: :bigplane:

Forecast Sunday AM: "An area of low pressure will move across the northern Great Lakes, pushing a cold front across the Middle Atlantic and Northeastern States today. Showers and thunderstorms will be likely from Boston and New York, southward through Philadelphia and Washington. A few severe thunderstorms, along with heavy downpours, will also be possible. Temperatures in these areas will be warm ahead of the front, with afternoon temperatures in the upper 70s and lower 80s. Meanwhile, areas from Burlington to Buffalo, southward through Pittsburgh will experience showers, wrapping in behind the storm system. These areas will be much cooler with afternoon highs ranging from the middle 60s to lower 70s. The cold front should move off the eastern seaboard by Monday, allowing for partly cloudy skies and cooler conditions to overspread all of the Middle Atlantic and Northeast. A few showers will still be possible in areas near the Great Lakes and across northern New England, as low pressure will still be close enough to wrap some moisture in. High pressure will build across the entire area by Tuesday, ending all chances for rainfall." Yee haw!!:tiphat:

[cshollingsworth]

Hey all...

This is like a whirlwind day today!

Thank you Barb-San about the weather. I too, had already peeked. We come back Wednesday, and that looks OK too. Just glad the weather system is clearing out and won't be a factor.

My mother is so excited about going. She is weird! :lol: I'm excited, but nervous too. No lies!

Barb, aerobat...I haven't really ignored your posts on anxiety management, but I have been in denial that I actually had anxiety. If anything, I've wondered if I had some kind of premenission or something. I don't think I spelled that correctly, but at this point, I don't care much about spelling. I've always had plane nightmares and like others on here, have thought that meant something...that I should stay on the ground. I came home yesterday and took a nap and even had a nightmare then about a plane. So, you know...I think it's obvious I just have some mental issues going on here. I'm a certified nutcase! :D

The good point on our traveling is this, mom hasn't flown in a few years and she liked it. She hasn't really been on a major trip since she become widowed, so this is probably a good thing for her to get out of her own little world for awhile.

I just hope I'm not going to get there tomorrow and panic...because for one, my mom would honestly slap me, and two I would look like a dork getting smacked by my mom at 33. :mg:

[Barb-SAN]

If you are flying on Southwest, just be sure to check in online 24 hrs. ahead of time, get your "A" boarding pass, and get to the airport EARLY so you can get at the front of the "A" line, so you can get good seats, and you and your Mom can sit next to each other.

What worked well for me was to hand the TF letter to the FA when I boarded the plane, go put my backpack on a seat, and then come back up to the cockpit. By then, the pilot had already had a chance to read the letter...so was ready for a quick chat. When I came back to my seat, the people in the adjacent seats said they were about to report my "abandoned backpack" to a flight attendant! Well, at least people have been listening to all those security warnings in the terminal!:rolleyes:

Flying on Saturdays, I was in line 20 min. early in San Diego, and in Albuquerque the A line already started forming 35 min. early...we were seated on the floor against the wall. The woman next to me said she flies a lot during the week, and that you need to get there earlier to get to the front of the line, because the planes fly full. Our plane yesterday was less than half full...so it was all very relaxed. I think someone here mentioned planning on getting in line an hour early to be at the front of the "A" line.

Well, hope it turns out to be an adventure for your Mom too. I honestly think it would be really great if you could both go up to the cockpit and meet the pilots, and tell your story. If your flight originates in Nashville, the pilots might have a little more free time than if it is a connecting flight (at least that's what I saw in my limited experience on this trip I just took).

[cshollingsworth]

The lady I talked to around 12 noon today told me that this particular flight right now heading to Philly is not full. She told me there are "plenty" of seats on it at this time. Don said yesterday the plane was about half full. This plane comes from Philly and then returns back there.

Don is excited. I called and told him our plans and he is all tickled about it, but I did tell him if I end up dead I'm coming back to haunt him. Yes, I'm trying to have a bit of humor about this, but you all know that I'm sitting here right now battling my anxiety. I feel like I have had a sudden burst of adreneline in my system and I'm hyperactive right now. Still feeling stressed from yesterday and that ordeal, but otherwise feeling hyper and a bit jittery.

I will give the TF letter out tomorrow and we checked in online around 12:30 today and were still able to get an A pass, so I'm thinking it's not that full.

[aerobat]

Courtney,

Anxiety...affirmative. :nod: We have to name the beast before we can exorcise it.

Certified nutcase...negative. Just a healthy, smart, creative, witty, caring, interesting woman with...anxiety. No big deal. Name it. Whup its ass.

I know about that weather; it blew through here yesterday with lots of thunder, lightning and rain. But your pilots will avoid it. Trust them. Talk to them about it. By tomorrow it'll be out of your path.

Congrats on a good, albeit a bit scary, decision; having your mom come along is very strategic. Perhaps next time you won't need her. You'll soon be able to fly alone, if you just do the work and keep the faith.:thumbsup:

Courtney's mom:

You are too cool! :tiphat: Thank you! Have a wonderful flight, you two.

Barb

[Barb-SAN]

you all know that I'm sitting here right now battling my anxiety. I feel like I have had a sudden burst of adreneline in my system and I'm hyperactive right now. Still feeling stressed from yesterday and that ordeal, but otherwise feeling hyper and a bit jittery.

Courtney...Do you have any physical activity that you enjoy doing? Walking, running, bicycling, swimming, climbing stairs? Anything that will get your heart rate up, and deepen your breathing...this will help to burn off that sudden burst of adrenaline, and calm you down. You might be surprised how calm you could be tomorrow, if you keep burning off the adrenaline today. Even scrubbing floors (ick...)...I'd rather walk in the rain, personally! Anyway...time to get out of your head, and into your body...and be active for awhile!:cool:

[cshollingsworth]

:) Barb Aerobat...I really liked the "whup it's ass" line. Good one! It made me laugh. :)

Yes, I do have anxiety. And I have denied it a long time. Here's why:

5 years ago I had a lot going on. Change of job, a move, a break-up with a long time boyfriend (9 yrs.) and to top it off, the death of my step-dad. I started having heart palpitations. All the time. I decided I had something wrong with my heart. Must have something, I mean, why did it beat so weird all the time, right? I went to the doctor, then another one, then another one. They checked my heart, did tests. Told me I had PVC's and a sinus arrythmia. They also said a lot of people had PVC's and it was "normal." Yeah, right, I thought. Whatever.

Stress was really out of proportion in my life. Bigtime. I started waking up in the middle of the night sitting straight up in bed out of breath. Sometimes, even waking up either crying or sometimes feeling as if my heart had stopped. I was in a panic attack in the middle of my sleep.

I started having problems at my new job. My heart would be so fast I could not stand it. I would retreat to my office space and shut the door behind me and just sit there taking deep breaths until it slowed down. I had panic attacks then.

A doctor put me on Zoloft. It made them worse. I had to stop taking it. I would get so nervous I would almost pass out. I stopped driving myself for a short period of time. I wouldn't go get a haircut because I couldn't stand to sit still in the chair.

I went through all of that for about 6 months. I cried a lot then too. Finally, I decided to stay home awhile, try to adjust, work on the farm and just calm down. Life had changed and I needed a break.

I started taking Xanax .05 three times per day. I tried Paxil with it. The Xanax three times a day worked better than anything else. I was calming down. The sitting up in bed thinking my heart stopped had finally left me, the crying in my sleep stopped, the fast heart beat went down to normal range.

I met Don that year. We were friends. He was very calm and humorous, great personality and always cheery to be around. Between casual dates with him and the Xanax...well, what can I say? Went back to the hairdresser on a bi-weekly basis, drove again, started eating better, felt better, looked a HECK of a lot better, took a new job (did home health care for awhile, just to get back in the swing of working).

It's been 4 yrs. since I felt like I had a full blown panic attack. At least until I start to fly. If my mind had a speedometer when I start to think about flying, it would be in the red zone. Everything is a whirl in my head and all I can see is fireballs and death. I've got that really ingrained into my thinking and I'm still having mega trouble getting it out of my mind.

Right now, even though I'm excited about seeing Don tomorrow...I am still having major anxiety. I keep thinking, what if we die? Did I just buy two tickets to kill my mother and I both? Did I??? What if something goes wrong? It's an hour and a half...surely it will be OK.

I worry about it all. The "jackscrew" issue that Alaska had, the engine fires, the wiring, the smoke in the cockpit scenario, the explosions, landing gear...holes in the plane...terrorist.

Need I continue? No, probably not. I know my stats are pretty dang good for making it home. I know that. But I still have the feeling that maybe I should not have bought the tickets, just shut up and waited for Don to come home Wednesday and forgot all about it.

I'm still scared and iffy about the whole thing. I get sick too, stomach issues going on today. I've been in the bathroom about 3 times since I decided to try again tomorrow and go to see Don.

I'm an emotional mess. That's just me.

Yes, mom is very cool for even wanting to fly and for being so non-chalant about it. She's not easily disturbed. She had open heart surgery about 2 yrs. ago and came through that despite having a major complication. Her blood pressure dropped after surgery and her heart rate went way, way down. She was turning blue around the lips in the ICU and they had to put a bag of dopamine on her to bring her back up. She figures it wasn't her time then. I'm just hoping it's not either of our times tomorrow or Wednesday.

I know that is even insane me saying that, but I think I'm the worst case of FoF ever.

[cshollingsworth]

Well, I have to work off some energy. So, I'm going to WalMart. :tongue: I'm still really nervous and have a lot of anxious energy. So, nothing like going and blowing some money. I'm thinking of looking at a new Gameboy or some new "toy" to entertain me. I love playing the Sims on my computer at home, but for some reason, it won't load on my laptop computer. I could sit and do the Sims for hours at a time but it will not load up. So, that's out.

Man, I'm still fit to be tied. But, I did clean-up! I'm not wearing pajamas! I look 100% better too. That makes me feel a little better as well. :)

Plus, Don says he is going to sneak out of his meeting when we get there tomorrow and greet us. That will be great. I'll probably break into tears.

Usually, when I fly, and they get to the part where the FA's are saying "Welcome to (insert name of a city here)" and then they thank you for flying Southwest, I actually tear up! I'm serious.

See, unlike most people, if I actually make it to my destination...I am shocked. Whereas I normal person would feel shocked if they didn't get there. I'm mentally challenged...pretty sure of that after this weekend.

Even though we only have 2 days up there, mom and I are planning on site seeing while Don is in meetings Monday. We are going to do the open-air bus and go to the farmers market. I also want to take her to see the Liberty Bell and Chinatown. I also know a little place to eat breakfast called "The Midtown" and would like to go there for some good eggs.

OK, off to WalMart for that Gameboy! My old one is...well, it's old. And you can't see the screen on it good unless you hold it under a light. Yeah, I'm 33 years old and I own a Gameboy. :rolleyes:

[WillFlyToDisney]

Wow. I didn't think it was even possible to ask specifically to sit next to a pilot. :angel:

Kari - here is the trick I have learned... book yourself in the exit row window seat. Most pilots like the aisle so they can stretch their legs when they are riding in the back. When you check in for your flight check to see if the aisle seat next to you is empty - if it is and there is a deadheading pilot on your flight then chances are VERY GOOD that you get to sit beside the guy that looks like this :ray: !

Trust me....

Kel

[WillFlyToDisney]

Courtney - flying thru bad weather is one of my main fears. I have learned though that just as John said - the pilots WILL NOT FLY if they don't think it is safe.

Have a good trip. Tell your Mom "hi" from all of us! :wave:

Kelley

[cshollingsworth]

Guys and gals...

I'm sick with worry right now. I mean, literally sick. My stomach is killing me.

Anyone in chat??? I think I'm going there...

[cshollingsworth]

Guys, I can't do this...I really and truly cannot do it.

I cancelled my booking. My mother wasn't real happy and Don and I were just let down. I just can't do this yet. I tried like you would not believe. I really had made myself believe I could, but I can't. I'll just say that I can't yet...and I'll leave it at that.

If it were not for those **** (sorry) dreams I have and the "gut" feeling of dying in a plane crash. I can't get it out of my head that I'll die on a plane. I have no reason to really fear flying, other than the dreams and the thoughts of the planes crashing back when I was a kid. Maybe all of that works against me. I don't know, but what I do know is...I just can't do this right now.

You guys have been on this rollercoster with me for two days and it's time for me to get off it, go regroup, wait for Don to come home and just stop the craziness for awhile. This has been emotionally draining for me since yesterday.

Maybe I'm not right about my feeling of death if I board a plane, I hope I'm wrong, but I know if I stay off it, I don't die by plane crash. If I get on it and it goes down, then I'm right. Of course, right now, I don't really want to find out.

[Barb-SAN]

Courtney,

I can sense the despair in your post, and am truly sorry that you have decided not to fly tomorrow, especially since the weather forecast is good, and your Mom was willing to fly with you. I think we have all tried to give you as much support and positive suggestions as we can possibly think of. But, sometimes a long-distance message board simply isn't enough, and it is time to seek out a professional therapist, and "do the work". I hope you will use the unhappiness and stress of the past two days as a motivation to find a therapist while the feelings and turmoil are still fresh. Otherwise, the sense of relief you will now feel for having cancelled may fool you into thinking that there wasn't really that much of a problem after all.

I too have a "sensitive" disposition...and this is just the way we are "wired"...it will follow you throughout your life. The sooner you learn some techniques to calm your stomach and nerves, the more pleasant your life will be.

Also, as a teacher, you are in a position to recognize and help "sensitive" children among your students, who may be suffering untreated anxiety. So, all that you can learn about anxiety disorders may be helpful for many more people besides yourself.

Good luck...and know that we are here wishing you success...and hoping that you will report back too if you do go to therapy, and will share any valuable information and experiences.:thumbsup:

[aerobat]

Hey, Courtney,

I am sorry that you decided to give up this round, but not surprised--and not not-surprised due to any negative impressions I have of you or anything like that. It's just so very d*mn difficult for us to bootstrap ourselves out of such terror on the spur of the moment. Even when we are very motivated by such feelings of disappointment, anger and shame as you are expressing.

It's because anxiety has this knack of always being at our backs getting the last laugh. 'Tis further proof that you are up against the ol' haywire neurochemistry.

Look, just take it easy, get a massage (the therapeutic kind, of course:angel: ) and start working on your anxiety education, or pick up where you last left off. There will be a way around this seeming impasse. It will take work. And Barb-SAN's suggestion about finding a pro is an excellent one. And be choosy. The adaa.org site has listings of their membership by city. Check it out. Go discover that there is a map and that you are on it...because I think you really believe you have the most incurable case of FoF in the known universe.

To that I say pshaw.:lol:

You just have to go about this correctly. When you do, all the knowledge you have gathered here will fall into place. It does feel like magic when it starts to happen. And there's no mistaking it, even though you may be pinching yourself.

But meanwhile...OK, you can't fly right now. But don't give your fear a chance to grow stronger. Gitchy se'f some he'p and whup its ass, you heah? :tongue:

Barb

[cshollingsworth]

Both of you have offered me excellent information. And I agree with you both about finding a "good" psychologist to try and get through some of the fears associated with flying. I will look at that link a few minutes and just see what I can come up with. We have a great psychologist in our dept. at work, he's the real-deal...he might be someone to at least make a referral for me to someone that he knows maybe in Nashville or somewhere. I'll find out what he knows. He might even work with me, who knows. I'll ask.

I want to do normal things, be a part of this exciting life that I have access too. I mean, about once per every 4 months, my husband gets to go someplace really nice, stay in the best of hotels, and here I am with the option to do that, and because of this foolish fear, it makes me stay at home unless we can drive to the destination.

I found out this morning the other FoFing wife of the other board member had a plane ticket too and backed out. She and I need to seek help together. It's been eating at her for 25 yrs. and she's only flown twice. So, she's probably a little worse than me, but we sure have this in common.

I decided that since I'm off work and have a couple days before Don gets home, and I know I need a break I decided to take off on a road trip. My mother and I never get to do anything together or spend time together, so we are leaving this afternoon for a 255 mile drive to Metropolis, IL to take part in Harrah's finest slot machines. It will be a good road trip for us girls and maybe it will snap me out of my depression. Plus, I really want her to go book the room so we can use her AARP discount. *ha* OK, come on, I have to laugh sometime, right?

I thank you all so much for sticking with me and not being like, "Oh, you big looser, you can't fly...you're an idiot." Thanks for not saying that even if you've thought it just like I have. :blush:

OK, I'm off to Harrah's. At least I can whup depression's arse.

[noflyingfan]

Courtney,

Have fun in Metropolis. Take a picture of the Superman water tower while you're there! I've never been there, but I'm happy to have something so kitschy in my state.

No one is going to think you're a loser. Some people just need more help than a board like this can offer, and there's nothing wrong with that. You're not the first or last, you're not abnormal. I think the best thing for you to have done at this point is to recognize that and seek that help.

I grounded myself for years, as have many others here. And I don't know about them, but I know I would not have made the progress I have without having had that time off. It gave me a chance to really think about and work on my fear without having to face actually having to get on a plane before I was ready.

Pilots have ground school; why can't we?

So work on it. Seek that help, and when you are ready to make that decision to fly (REALLY ready), then do it. But make the decision. Like Lynda said (in the other thread), you need to stick to your guns. If you're not going to fly, don't book the ticket. But if you book the ticket, get your butt on that plane and into that seat.

You can do this. We're all here to support you. So take the time you need, then book that ticket and kick some FOF butt!

Erika

[WillFlyToDisney]

I thank you all so much for sticking with me and not being like, "Oh, you big looser, you can't fly...you're an idiot." Thanks for not saying that even if you've thought it just like I have. :blush:

Courtney - if everyone flew without any worries then we wouldn't all be here at Taking Flight. We are here because we have been where you are on some level and understand. You're not alone.

[Barb-SAN]

Courtney,

I've just spent a half hour reading some posts from almost a year ago, when you were agonizing about flying to Las Vegas for your wedding, and received so much good support and advice from folks here on the board. You might find it very interesting to reread some of those posts, and think about if anything has changed or improved for you since that time, and if you took any of those suggestions to heart.

I think that it is a very positive sign that you are considering working with a therapist, and have someone specific in mind. I hope that it will prove to be a useful and life-changing experience.

[tabbygirl]

I'm another grad of the Program Not Mentioned Here. It DOES work. My last flight 3 weeks ago was a piece of cake (even with turb) and I had ZERO anticipatory anxiety.

Also, I am the anxious type myself, like you - and I also had several years of PVCs, and not believing any of the many doctors who checked out my heart and told me I was fine! As I worked to get my generalized anxiety under control, the PVCs went away. So...you and I have quite a bit in common.

With the right help, and plenty of willingness and determination, you can do it. If I can do it, BELIEVE ME, you can do it!

It does feel like magic when it starts to happen. And there's no mistaking it, even though you may be pinching yourself.
AMEN!

(You KNOW phobics are said to be unusually intelligent and creative, right? :))

[StPeteMark]

....(You KNOW phobics are said to be unusually intelligent and creative, right? :))
RIGHT! And that's what gets us into trouble! However, they are also the same characteristics that get us back into the air!
.

[LeslieDEN]

I'm another grad of the Program Not Mentioned Here. It DOES work. Me too. I mention that only because I learned something there that I think has real relevance here, and I wanted to give credit where it's due.

It's not a big part of the course or anything, just a point of info, but it seemed to play out in a big way in Courtney's struggle this weekend. It's this:

Sometimes when we have free-floating anxiety about flying, we try really hard to attach it to something solid. We assume that if the anxiety is there, it must have a real cause, and we search pretty fruitlessly for that cause.

In the days before her flight, Courtney asked many questions -- about the safety of an older plane, about what she thought was an unsafe altitude during her tracking, etc. -- and as each was answered satisfactorily, another concern popped up. Courtney even said, "You know me, if I can't worry about one thing, I'll find something else." I'm not trying to play psychoanalyst, but I think that's key to what happened.

On the day of the flight, weather became the focus. Something solid to be afraid of.

But then weather went away, and what was left? The anxiety had never changed. It was always there, always the same, just looking for something, anything to attach itself to. Finally, the cause became premonitions and dreams.

But none of those things was really the cause of the anxiety. They were convenient excuses for the anxiety. As I said, it's very common for us to do this -- to try to attach the anxiety to something, anything, so it won't seem to be the free-floating thing it actually is. The age of the plane, the weather, that burning smell coming from up front (oh, that's just coffee brewing? Um ... I meant that patch on the wing! ... oh, that's normal? Um ... I meant that terrorist-looking guy two rows ahead! On and on it goes.).

The solution, for me and many others, was to follow specific steps to get rid of the anxiety first, so we don't have to live with a fear in search of a source. I know the Barbs and others have talked about the importance of getting help, but I wanted to go into some specifics about why I found it so important to do that, and how the nature of the beast was explained to me.

I hope I'm not out of line or getting too much into psych stuff. I'm certainly not trying to diagnose Courtney! It's just that her posts seemed to follow the model of the person with fear-in-search-of-a-source so precisely that I thought it was worth talking about.

[Barb-SAN]

The solution, for me and many others, was to follow specific steps to get rid of the anxiety first, so we don't have to live with a fear in search of a source.

I think this is a really good point, Leslie. Courtney mentioned getting surges of adrenaline. That was why I asked her if she had some favorite aerobic activities she could do to burn off adrenaline, like running, swimming, etc. She did decide to go to WalMart to burn off energy, but didn't answer the question directly about doing specific aerobic exercises to raise the heart rate and deepen the breathing.

We often get over-stressed due to overwork, lack of sleep, not eating right, caffeine, etc., and that makes us more susceptible to free-floating anxiety. Then, as you suggest, we may blame it on the plane rather than look at our own life-styles for contributing factors.

I did indeed find the "Program whose name we don't mention here" to be useful. However, I utilized it about a year after I'd started working on my FF, doing biofeedback therapy, yoga, and some other programs first. I'd be curious to know if anyone has used "That program" as their only therapy, and did find they solved their "problem" within a few days as advertised.

[aerobat]

Quoting Leslie:

In the days before her flight, Courtney asked many questions -- about the safety of an older plane, about what she thought was an unsafe altitude during her tracking, etc. -- and as each was answered satisfactorily, another concern popped up. Courtney even said, "You know me, if I can't worry about one thing, I'll find something else." I'm not trying to play psychoanalyst, but I think that's key to what happened.

On the day of the flight, weather became the focus. Something solid to be afraid of.

But then weather went away, and what was left? The anxiety had never changed. It was always there, always the same, just looking for something, anything to attach itself to. Finally, the cause became premonitions and dreams.

These observations are beautiful, Les, and so very much on target. :thumbsup: And I'd bet that if we reviewed Courtney's trail of angst from last year, before she took that famous bus ride :eek: , we'd again see that frog-hopping anxiety looking for the next thing to plop onto.

Courtney, I hope you don't mind, but yours is such an interesting case...:tongue:

And this was also my experience with it. My anxiety about flying had a shifty way of always jumping to something just out of the range of reason and festering there until it had another place to jump.

Sometimes it seems that FoFers are intent upon turning over every stone except the very one that needs to be turned. I certainly was a classic case of d'oh in this regard :lol: . "No, it can't possibly be as simple as tricking my brain to stop cranking out adrenaline, because this fear is keeping me safe."

Safe from what, I could never quite fathom, but...safe.

I remember when the first popular literature on behavioral psychology appeared on the scene in the sixties. It was so not-cool in the intellectual milieu of which I was a part. I was immersed in Jungian psychology, the study of dreams, the examination of myths of many cultures, the exploration of shamanism, diving deep into the unconscious...but this nuts-and-bolts behavioral stuff seemed cold and uninviting. It was shallow,:pokefun: parlor trickery, and even if it worked, how unromantic.

But the truth is that it's brilliant. It helps us get our hands on the adrenaline spigot.

And then when NLP (neurolinguistic programming) came along, I took the skeptic's chair again, and sat it out for years. What is this anchor-point fluff? Some trendy hype like the latest diet that will be gone in a month or two, replaced by another gimmick.

Wrong again. It's brilliant stuff. It trains us to build bridges to where we want to be emotionally. At first it takes effort and conscious practice, but then we habituate to it. Our old paradigm dries up and blows away, and a new one flowers in its place.

And so it is with other new developments in anxiety research. Yes, there will be bickering and disagreement (academics love to bicker) and professional rivals will try to take the other guy down a notch or three, but out of it all, our understanding moves forward. We can stick with one solid program like that one we aren't mentioning and bust through, or we can eclectically cobble our own tailored program and bust through. But the point is, we have to take action of a sort that is totally counter-intuitive at first. We have to trick our brains, and then we start to glimpse how our brains have been tricking us. Some people can do this without professional help, and others need a pro to cut to the chase. It's really a different-strokes issue, and not one of superiority vs. deficiency. Our life experiences have a lot to do with how we can best bust through, but the actual busting requires little to no diving into the unconscious, nor into our childhood. It's nuts-and-bolts trickery.

And suddenly, magically, all the aviation knowledge we have gathered has a thousand times more weight. Stumbling into the magic of this is such an epiphany that I cannot find the words to express it.

And the frog-hopping anxiety evaporates. The adrenaline spigot is turned off. The cage door is open and the sky beckons. Pretty darn romantic it is after all. :)

Barb

[Barb-SAN]

I pulled out my "Anxiety Bible" last night and was reading through a few chapters. I'd say it is the most complete workbook I found as I was haunting the self-help section of my local bookstore, in the midst of my most anxious years. It's available on Amazon, here's the link...check out all the positive customer reviews for more information: The Anxiety & Phobia Workbook by Edmund J. Bourne, PhD (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/1572244135/ref=cm_rev_next/002-8832421-2925646?ie=UTF8&customer-reviews.sort%5Fby=-SubmissionDate&n=283155&s=books&customer-reviews.start=21).

Here's a bit about what Bourne has to say about Phobias:

"A phobia is a persistent and unreasonable fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that results in a compelling desire to avoid that dreaded object, activity, or situation. There are three characteristics which distinguish a phobia from ordinary, everyday fears. First, you are persistently afraid of the object or situation over a long period of time. Second, you know that your fear is unreasonable, even though this recognition does not help to dispel it. Finally, what is most characteristic of a phobia is your avoidance of the feared situation. Being unreasonably afraid of something is not yet a phobia; the phobia begins when you actually start avoiding what you fear."

He goes on to discuss how phobias can develop from conditioning and trauma (e.g. having a panic attack while on a plane)

"Conditioning by association may cause you to develop a fear toward a particular situation or object, but it does not by itself create a phobia. Only when you start to avoid that situation or object do you "learn" to be phobic. A time-honored principle in behavioral psychology is that any behavior that is rewarded tends to be repeated. Avoiding a situation you're anxious about is obviously rewarded- the reward being the reduction of anxiety. Each time you avoid the situation, the reward of being relieved of anxiety follows, and so your avoidance behavior gets strengthened and tends to be repeated. Your avoidance works very well in saving you from anxiety."

"As long as you continue to avoid dealing with a phobic situation, activity, or object, the phobia will remain securely in place. Trying to think or reason your way out of a phobia simply won't work if you continue to avoid confronting it directly. As long as you avoid a situation, you will be prone to worry about whether you can ever handle it.

"Overcoming a phobia means that you unlearn certain responses while relearning others. When you finally begin to face the situation, you unlearn both 1) the "fear-in-advance" - the anticipatory anxiety about possibly panicking in the situation, and 2) the avoidance of the situation itself. At the same time, you give yourself the opportunity to learn that you can enter--and remain in--a phobic situation without undue anxiety. You can learn to tolerate and eventually be comfortable in any phobic situation if you approach it in sufficiently small steps. The imagery and real-life desensitization processes discussed in later chapters are intended to foster this type of learning."

Whew....that's a long quote...but it really sums up what we need to do to get over fear of flying...and gives a clue as to what the path can be. He of course goes into far more detail about the specific steps in the book.

[tabbygirl]

I did indeed find the "Program whose name we don't mention here" to be useful. However, I utilized it about a year after I'd started working on my FF, doing biofeedback therapy, yoga, and some other programs first. I'd be curious to know if anyone has used "That program" as their only therapy, and did find they solved their "problem" within a few days as advertised.
Well, I had done a lot of reading of posts on the other board, and the information and support was encouraging but not enough to get me into the sky. The program was my only actual FOF therapy. Yes, I do feel that my problem was more or less gone upon completion of the program (which took more than a couple of days at the pace I was going; I think it was more like 2 weeks).

I still had anxiety here and there for my first couple of post-program flights, but I had the tools to defuse it enough to where I was comfortable while flying. Also I have been able to sleep the night before every post-program flight - for me that was huge. And each flight, and the time leading up to it, has become easier and easier. Last flight I had ZERO anticipatory anxiety.

I gained a good understanding the nature of anxiety/my control issues, and most important, I gained tools to use in the future.

I do want to stress that I went into the program sick to death of the fear and I was absolutely determined to beat it. But objectively I can say that each component of the program gave me some sort of "a-ha!" moment and steadily added to my comfort about flying and to my ability to handle those anxiety moments.

As an aside, I've faced a cancer diagnosis followed by surgery and radiation since doing the program and I found myself using some of the same approach to that experience (i.e., meeing the surgeon = meeting the pilot, and so on). So I can say that the program has continued to help me deal with anxiety in general.

I also want to say "YES!" to Leslie's entire post - I understand she isn't diagnosing anyone but the description of the way anxiety works and how we typically try to make sense of it was perfect. It illustrates why it's so important to tackle anxiety as an entity, if that makes sense!

[cshollingsworth]

Yesterday on the way to Metropolis, my mother and I stopped to "see" the planes at the airport. I think she was really and truly trying to help me. She said, "Can we eat at the airport?" I said yeah, sure. So, we parked in short term, walked to the terminal, went to what they call the "Capitol Grill" and sat down where you can see the American Airlines and NWA planes parked. Beyond that, you can see the terminal. We ordered and sat and watched the airplanes land and take-off.

We stayed there about 1 1/2 hrs. Surprisingly, security lines were rather short and the airport not too busy. I wasn't anywhere near as overwhelmed by fear, but then again, I knew I wasn't about to have to set foot on a plane either.

We looked at arrivals and departures. "How many crashed today?" my mother asked and looked at the board. To which, I had to say, "None." She asked, "How many are in the air right now?" "Thousands." I said.

We had a long discussion about fears yesterday, right there at the airport. I wanted to get on a plane then and there and go to Philadelphia to salvage whatever time I could out of the trip with my husband. I asked my mother could she hop on too or just go on home? She didn't have her enough of her heart med supply but for yesterday and today. None for tomorrow, as we knew we were coming home today. She couldn't take off without those. And since she doesn't drive much, well...out went the option of her driving my car back home. It wasn't going to happen. She doesn't drive much in big cities or on interstates, but she has no fear about flying. Don't we all have our vices?

So, we left the airport, with my heart feeling so heavy and broken, knowing again, I could not muster the nerve to get to PHL.

We spent the night in Metropolis. It was odd. I can't say I had that much fun. Harrah's Metropolis is a huge joke to the one in Vegas and even the one in New Orleans. Geesh. The hotel was gorgeous though.

We got up early this morning and drove home after breakfast. It's a short trip up there, about 145 miles.

So, here I am at home...again, in an empty house. I talked to my husband by phone to let him know we were back, and just as most every time I've talked to him while he's been gone, I've started crying again. Crying because I feel so incredibly stupid and tired of being afraid. Tired of asking the "What if" question...just tired of putting my life on hold and not getting to be with him. I just feel so much like I am not supposed to be at home right now, I should be gone, on my mini-vacation...but due to this overwhelming stupid fear, I am here instead driving myself bonkers wanting to be there with him and knowing that I cannot.

Tonight, I'm missing out on the concert after the banquet too. We had tickets to see Lorrie Morgan (a Nashville, country-music entertainer). So, there will be Don sitting around watching a great show from great seats with the one by him empty. This has to have been the worst few days ever.

Tonight the 7:30 flight is my last chance to get there, spend the night and then turn around and come home. I know by not going, I won't be in the air for at least 1 calendar year from now. The next trip we are driving in February, then driving in July and next September when he goes to Denver, I'm sure flying won't even be mentioned. So, once he comes home tomorrow night and I've stayed home for this one...it's all over for me. I know it. I'll be so far out of the ballgame I will never get back in it.

As for Barb-San suggestion on working off the adreneline, I did housework too that night trying to get it to burn off, plus walked the dog rather briskly. I thought I was in good shape, but nope...not me.

This has to be the most frustrating thing I have ever had to deal with in my life.

[Barb-SAN]

Wow, That's quite a post. It sounds like you've got a smart and supportive Mom. Going and sitting at the airport and watching the planes and having lunch and talking about fears, with no pressure to actually fly, sounds exactly like the way to gradually desensitize to the entire idea of flying. I think that if your husband is supportive of the idea of you getting over fear of flying, he will arrange some opportunities for you to practice some short weekend flights in the coming months when there are no "business pressures". It's never "black and white", and there are always many things you can do in the meantime if you want to get over this fear. The important thing, as many here have mentioned, is to keep trying, and NOT GIVE UP! There are ways to work on general anxiety without ever getting on a plane too (yoga, relaxation skills, breathing, martial arts, swimming, nutrition, working on thought patterns, etc....and spending time with that therapist you were mentioning!).:thumbsup:

[cshollingsworth]

It might be good to go for a leisurely flight instead of the pressure of "I have to get on here, Don's company paid for this." That always is a huge factor in my mind as well. I feel obligated, and then when I crack under pressure as I did this time, well, there you go. It set me up for complete and utter failure all the way around. I'm still worried about having to pay the company back now for the flight ticket and the banquet ticket and registration, etc., etc. I'm sure Don will want to reimburse them to not make waves for future trips.

So, yeah, I've had a lot to think about the last few days. Thanks for sticking it out with me and offering suggestions. This has put such a stress on me that it's in turn filtered over to my relationship with Don. When I spoke to him by phone earlier he was rattling on about stuff he's doing this afternoon and evening and basically, he sounded perfectly fine there without me, like he was having a blast. I was all sad and let down and moping and felt kind of like he didn't need me there to start with. I've gone from depression to now borderline anger. Especially last night when he said he and 2 other men had gone to an oyster bar. When he called from there, I could hear the chatter of everyone and could hear what sounded like women sitting very near them. I got jealous, thinking he might be sitting there eating oysters with some unknown women in a bar. My hackles raised a bit on that one, but I know Don and I know he isn't dishonest and I know I can trust him. But for that one moment, I was soooo angry that I wasn't there.

And you know what? And I know this is petty...100% petty and ridiculous on my part, but I almost want to just tell him to ride home with his other colleagues tomorrow, that I don't even really want to come to the airport and get him. Today I started thinking if only he would have waited until the weather cleared out a little and we could have gotten the next flight Saturday morning then I could have gone along. I guess that is simply looking to blame him for my cowardness, but I think I recognize behavior such as this goes along with anxiety/depression. And I know I'm the only one to blame here. I know that, and I can accept it, but it doens't take away from it much at the time. I think it will take me awhile to get over this one.

[Passenger Mark]

So, once he comes home tomorrow night and I've stayed home for this one...it's all over for me. I know it. I'll be so far out of the ballgame I will never get back in it.


No way Courtney!

Why do you have to have a reason to fly? In fact it might be better if there is no reason.

Why can't you and Don fly down to Atlanta for the weekend, or even for an evening?

Flights are cheap, short, and there is tons to do in Atlanta!

Don't count yourself out of the game just because there are no PLANNED flights.

Barb Wrote:
Wow, That's quite a post. It sounds like you've got a smart and supportive Mom. Going and sitting at the airport and watching the planes and having lunch and talking about fears, with no pressure to actually fly, sounds exactly like the way to gradually desensitize to the entire idea of flying.

Amen to that! Why not do that some more. Captital Grill is where we (yes you too) are having lunch after the BNA tour.

Courtney, Your adventure is not ending, it is just beginning! :thumbsup:
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[cshollingsworth]

I will try and consider it as such. I wish it could begin right now with me driving back to BNA to fly tonight.

[Barb-SAN]

It might be good to go for a leisurely flight instead of the pressure of "I have to get on here, Don's company paid for this." That always is a huge factor in my mind as well. I feel obligated, and then when I crack under pressure as I did this time, well, there you go. It set me up for complete and utter failure all the way around. I'm still worried about having to pay the company back now for the flight ticket and the banquet ticket and registration, etc., etc. I'm sure Don will want to reimburse them to not make waves for future trips.

Even if you paid the company back for the flight ticket...wouldn't it still be good for you to apply towards some other flight? (I.e. then it would be YOUR ticket). It was SWA, right?

[Passenger Mark]

I will try and consider it as such. I wish it could begin right now with me driving back to BNA to fly tonight.

That is a choice for you to make. But whatever choice you make, go with it and don't look back.

If you decide to fly tonight, go. If you decide that now is not the time, then make that choice and don't look back.

It is the back and forth that is getting you, and is wearing you out. The feeling that you are somehow a looser, when you know you are not.

This has been a very hard weekend for you. Now if while reading this you feel like you can't go tonight... then don't. And then don't look back, but look forward.

There is no shame in that. But also do not give up on flying forever. Oh no, no, no, NO!

Yesterday I was watching Zeus (my German Shepherd puppy) trying to get his rawhide bone from under the sofa. He would work feverishly in one direction, and then another. He would work hard, then back up, and you could actually see him reassessing the situation. Finally he got it!

Now how you went about it this weekend did not work for you. So... time to back up a bit, look it over, and see if there is a better way. Perhaps it is just hanging out at the airport. Maybe exploring professional counseling. The thing is to just figure a differant way to your goal. I am sure you have done that in other areas of your life, why not with flying?

And regardless of what you do, you know where we are, and are here to support you.

[cshollingsworth]

yes, it was SWA

Gosh, Barb...this is the worst day ever. Talked to Don, he said he and 2 friends were going on the open-air bus tour of Philly. He and I took it 2 yrs. ago. I got kind of irritable with him and lashed out and asked could he just ride home with someone else tomorrow.

Why does he insist on telling me every last detail of everything he is doing? I'm the one he was supposed to be doing that stuff with, but nope...he can't because I'm too ridiculous to get on a plane.

[noflyingfan]

I agree with Mark. Choosing to go somewhere that isn't a planned thing might be better. When you're ready, plan a vacation. It will be on your terms then too. YOU will choose the flight, YOU will choose the destination, etc. Save your pennies and go first class! Make not only the trip, but the FLIGHT, a really special treat for yourself.

But do not book that ticket until you know you are going to get on that flight. You could buy a ticket every day, but until you get on that plane and in the air, you aren't accomplishing anything but giving yourself permission to fail. So don't book the ticket till you're ready. There's no shame in taking some time to sort out the fear.

As for Don, you are really lucky to have someone who is as patient as he is. It has to be difficult for the significant other of any fearful flyer to deal with. And I'm sure he missed you and worried about you the whole time he was gone. He's probably telling you the details because he wishes you were there, and he wants you to know what a great time he's having so you'll want to have a great time too! So get your butt to the airport tomorrow and tell him how much you missed him.

[cshollingsworth]

I know you are correct about I should go pick him up. I really know this. I think somehow I've let everything get rather blurry this weekend and up through today. I take what he's telling me out of context and I let the frustration just overcome me.

I got really upset when he was telling me on the phone how maybe I should go out for a drive or something, so I kind of yelled at him sarcastically and said, "I just drove to Illinoise and back!"

I don't think I need to actually talk to him again for several hours today. Just let things subside a little bit and try to forget this horrible mess.

[Passenger Mark]

Just let things subside a little bit and try to forget this horrible mess.

Courtney, Just put it behind you. As I said, it has been a tough weekend. You will not see it now, but you are actually learning.

But put it behind you, and now look forward. You know what??? You can't see forward if you are looking back!

Pick Don up, and have dinner. Talk it over with him. Tell him (and yourself) that you want to work on this. That it may take some trips to the airport to just look around. Talk about a quick trip to Atlanta. Start TOGETHER building plans for overcoming this.

You two have built plans together on other issues. The house, the remodel, etc. Do it with this.

As I said... quit looking back. What is done is done, nothing to be ashamed of. Now look forward. I will say it again... the adventure begins here, now, and today!

[aerobat]

Courtney said:

We had a long discussion about fears yesterday, right there at the airport. I wanted to get on a plane then and there and go to Philadelphia to salvage whatever time I could out of the trip with my husband. I asked my mother could she hop on too or just go on home?

Courtney, believe it or not (you don't now, but someday you will), you just had a glimpse of your future. :nod:

I used to see these "little windows" open during my years of groundedness and terror, under circumstances just like these--getting off a plane when I had to fly, and thinking "that wasn't so bad; I could do this again right now" or, picking someone up at the airport and feeling the normalcy of it all, thinking that I could get on a plane right then. But these little windows would close, because I did not take action to keep them open. I did not know that there was action to be taken. And I was, like you, mired in despair. :(

Do these windows open to taunt us? To dangle some prize before us that we cannot have? Are we simply stuck in the quicksand of our "not-ready-ness" until some outside force or something hidden within us finally makes us (or not) get the right kind of help?

Here is what I now believe about this:

If I had been fortunate enough to have one of those "little window" experiences right before a booked flight, and I had been willing to own up to my FoF rather than hide it in shame, and if I had known what help there is out there and had had a knowledgeable person steer me toward it, I would have beaten my FoF twenty years before I finally did it.

So, while I agree that we have to be ready, I also echo what Mark and others have said about having a choice. Some of this is luck (having the right opportunities and insights and people to help) and some of it is old-fashioned bootstrapping.

And I will echo the words of wisdom (including your own) above: you can choose to fly anytime. You are not at the mercy of Don's business travel or the vacations you plan far in advance. You can do practice flights for no reason other than to work on your FoF with minimal pressure. You can do them with Don or with your mom, and before long, you can do them by yourself. But you need some structure and guidance--more than we at TF can give you. That's why it's so important right now--when the energy of your missed opportunity is goading you to change--to seek the shortest path. And that path probably is working with a professional anxiety specialist. You'll be surprised at how wham-bam that can be, because you really are ready for it. I see that readiness in everything you say, most especially in your frustration and anger.

So--go get Don at the airport :hug: . If you can't stop feeling angry, then realize that it is your fear, and not Don, that is your enemy. Blow it away, Courtney. Enlist a wise ally and blow it away. It won't happen in one blast, but the first good blast will give you the confidence you need to finish it off and be free. We'll be here for you and so will your mom and your husband.

Barb

[cshollingsworth]

You are very correct in your words. I have found a psychologist in the Cookeville area that I am going to at least do a consultation with and see if perhaps he may be able to lend a hand in combating the anxiety issues that I have with the FoF especially.

I know stress is a factor in my daily life because I stress about my job a great deal too. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and you should have seen me during my remodeling of the house. I was so picky with everything, checking up on the contractors and making sure everyone did everything they were supposed to be doing and not making a giant mess. If I picked out a color for the wall and it looked nothing like what I expected, I changed it, and sometimes, even changed it in the same day. :blush: But, it's ours and we love it now.

I think I've let this all bother me because it is all connected...taking off work to go a trip, not being able to make the trip...taking off work for no apparent reason other than to see a huge statue of Superman on the town square in Metropolis, IL (I will post a pic on here later). I mean, sure, that's something to see and all, but it's not exactly Chinatown or Atlantic City to say the least.

I got a few phone calls this afternoon, and one was Don's sister, Dorothy, or as I call her, Dot. She has flown lots and so she and I talked a long time. She too, suggested that maybe Don and I fly to Birmingham sometime and go eat with her and her husband (they live in Florence). She said they would come to Birmingham and eat and hang out with us and visit and it would be good practice for me. I told her I'd had some others suggest it and I also knew it would be a good idea too. She, like her brother, has a good sense of humor about things and she said that everyone has something they are afraid of, some people have a spider phobia, or a snake thing...whatever. And she said she really thinks that I can whip this with just a few more (as she put it) "flights under my belt."

After I talked to Dot, I called Don who was getting ready for his banquet tonight. We talked on the speakerphone and I was helping him match his pants/shirt/jacket and tie. He's color-blind (seriously) and so I have to help him match his clothes. He was calling a navy coat burgandy, so you know...I had to remind him it was actually navy. :rolleyes: Anyway, during my assistance in getting him ready for his dinner, we talked more calmly, I apologized for being a horses butt, and he said he agrees on taking the short flights for practice. He also told me that he would support my decision in seeing a psychologist to work on the FoF. I told him my true feelings...I've been so afraid to fly because of the fact I'm scared of dying. I guess that is the bottom line. Maybe because I'm "not ready" or I have lots of things left undone. There is a bit of giving up the reigns thing going on too when I fly, I understand that part as well. But I told him that essentially, having tried to avoid dying by not getting on the plane, I have made myself miserable, and this is no way to have to live either. I mean, had I have flown, I'm scared for 1 1/2 hrs. This way, I've been miserable for going on 5 days. I think I would have just rather have taken the 1 1/2 hrs. on a plane with him instead.

There is a lot for me to do as far as the work goes, but I know I'm willing to try because after a horrible time period like this, I know I never want to feel this way of being left behind due to my own irrational fears again. So I have decided that instead of just simply going to the airport tomorrow and swinging into the parking lot in time to pick Don up, I'm going to go there early, walk around, read arrivals and departures, watch travelers coming and going, smell the smells, hear the announcements on the PA barking orders (PMark, you know what I mean here :tongue: ), and just take it all in. I'll watch planes from the Grill area. Maybe it will all sink in.

[Barb-SAN]

Excellent!!:D :thumbsup:

[Passenger Mark]

There you go!

And ignore the "barking dog" PA announcements! :D

[cshollingsworth]

Tonight I was thinking about the first time flying ever came up in my life. It was in 1999 when I went to work at Tennessee Tech University. I was hired as a technology instructor and was working on my Ed.S. in educational administration. I'd finished a Masters in instructional technology and TTU hired me to teach undergrad. students "21st Century Technology" classes. My boss came to me one day and said there was a technology conference in Dallas, TX and she wanted me to go with her on the trip.

I was instantly afraid of flying. I had no prior experience with it personally, just had a few friends and family who had flown. I hadn't heard about any bad experiences from any of my friends, but there was the fear without any real provocation.

My plane ticket was bought and sent to me in a little envelope. It was to be on American Airlines. I remember sitting and staring at the tickets to and from and looking at the flight numbers. I was mortified.

The date to leave got closer and closer. I got more scared. So, I started thinking of ways to get out of the trip. It was far-fetched, but I knew I could not fly and I had to do something, so I faked being sick on the day of the flight. I called the secretary and had her cancel me and let my boss know I wasn't going.

I went to work the next day and my boss called and wanted me to rebook another flight and come to Dallas. I couldn't do it and so I told her I just wasn't up to it physcially. She wasn't a happy camper, but she didn't press me on it.

I continued to work and then I heard about another instructor going to San Francisco a few months later to "Mac World." It is the big Mac computer show once a year that is held in San Francisco and one of my friends/colleagues was going. I decided that I had to "prove" myself to my boss and so I requested to go to Mac World. She apparently didn't have a lot of faith in my going through with the trip, because she asked me to pay for my ticket and such upfront and then I would be reimbursed after I got back.

I booked my flight on American Airlines from Nashville to Dallas and then from Dallas to San Francisco for January 3, 2000. Despite the Y2K fears, I had made up my mind to fly.

We took off around 7:30 a.m. to San Francisco. I wondered as soon as the plane started to leave what I had done. The plane sailed down the runway and we were going up before I had time to realize what was going on. We flew on to Dallas and as we neared the airport, the plane seemed to dip and loose altitude as he slowed the plane down to start the descent. I remember I was nervous then too. The bells were new sounds to me, and when people would push to call for an FA, I was confused and didn't know what it was. I thought it meant something was wrong.

We changed planes and got a bigger one in Dallas to go on to San Fran. The plane had t.v.'s on it and I thought that was pretty nifty although I didn't like the seating arrangements. There were sooo many people on that plane I couldn't imagine how we would ever take off.

I was sitting next to a friend of mine from TTU and he had the window seat. I was in the middle and another man with a laptop was on the outside seat. My friend from college fell asleep and I sat there stiff as a board, gripped with fear. We got near San Francisco and the fog was horrible. We could not see anything out the window except white fluff. It looked scary. The plane felt like it would go down and get quiet, then it would rise up and get louder. I couldn't figure out what was going on and I couldn't see anything out the window. The plane went down and back up in cycles for the longest time it seemed. People were starting to look at each other a little concerned. Another friend sitting in the rear looked about as scared as I did when I turned around to see him. Finally, we went really low and all of a sudden I could see the water outside the window past my friend. That scared me too because I didn't think we would be that close to the water. No one had warned me about that. I looked out and thought we were crashing into the water and my friend, who had landed there before, said, "You'll see runway any second." I thought, "We better." And I was so scared then...but sure enough, just as he said, we saw pavement and then I felt the plane touchdown.

As we walked off the plane, we went up through first class and out past the cockpit. The pilots were still sitting in the cockpit, writing stuff down and talking. Just as we got close enough to hear, the FO said, "I'm glad they let us land, we were almost out of fuel." I was like, ????!!!!

So, from that moment on...it started. We stayed 5 days there and had to come home on a big 757 to Dallas then on to Nashville on the Super 80 thing. The 757 was big and horrible looking on the inside. 3x3x3 rows of seats. I was smoothering by the time I got in my seat. I was in the middle section of seats and apparently right on top of the landing gear from the way it sounded when we took off. I thought we were going down for sure when that one took off because it was so HUGE. It had more t.v.'s and one big one mounted on the wall up in front of my section. I put my headphone things in my ears and found a channel I could hear. They had the headphones on the armrests at the time and you could pick a channel on the armrest. I didn't find the pilot channel but wish that I would have. I kept drinking on that flight trying to get drunk but it didn't work.:cheers:

We got back to Dallas and couldn't get off the plane. They held us at least 45 minutes. Everyone was standing up peeking out the windows trying to see what was going on. They wouldn't let us off and kept on stalling us. We finally got off and had to run in a mad dash to our next gate to get the Super 80 back to BNA. A muslim guy put us on a little golf cart and drove us back through the airport honking his horn and yelling, "Car, please!" Just as they were about to close the doors for boarding, we ran up with our tickets and were allowed to go on the plane. We dashed on only to see a grease covered mechanic standing in the cockpit with the pilots. We sat down in our seats in the very back near the lav. An off-duty FA came by me and asked her why the mechanic. She said she was sure it was fine. I sat down and we eventually took off only after the pilot told us that we were the "maiden voyage" as the plane had been in the hanger for the last 2 wks. for repairs. That scared the crap out of me again.

We went on to Nashville and the off-duty FA's let me sit with them. They saw I was scared out of my mind. They suggested that I take a fear of flying program when I got back home. The working FA kept on bringing me liquor. They said I was the worst flyer they had ever seen. And as I exited the plane, I told them I would never fly again. The pilot came out of the cockpit and shook hands with me and then I dashed off the plane.

So, from Jan. 00 until February 04, I did not fly and I dare say I would not have flown if not for Don. For vacations, I drove. It was that simple. If you couldn't get there by car, I didn't go. My job stopped bothering to give me plane tickets and instead gave me travel reimbursement for mileage when I would drive. When I left TTU and went back to public school, there was never the opportunity to fly, so I didn't have to worry about it. At least not until Don came into the picture.

That was my first experiences on a plane. As you can see, nothing really all that incredibly wild happened, other than maybe the mechanic being on board. But, it was all in my mind way before I ever got on a plane. The preconceived notion to be scared was there and buried up inside me. Where did it come from? I can't say other than seeing the news images when I was a kid. That's all I can think of, so it had to be that. I think I'll just print this post off and take to the pyschologist so he can pick it apart.

Sorry for rambling, but there's really nothing else to do tonight. :rolleyes:

[Passenger Mark]

Courtney, Thanks for sharing that. I read it last night, and thought about it. On the way into work today, I kind-of put together what I was going to write here.

First... I am going to tell on you :D . Yesterday Courtney and I talked on the phone for the first time. Courtney, I have to tell you that you have a great personality and sense of humor. That is a blessing! I could also tell you are a very intelligent person. You don't take things at face value, and need to know more, why, and how. All of these things are great assets for a teacher. I am betting that you are very creative with your students!

Now while they are great assets for a teacher, these same "assets" can be a pain in the "asset" :lol: for someone who has a Fear of Flying. I know... I have the same problem!

So that is observation #1!

In reading your post above, I came up with observation #2...

Being from Tennessee, and having hiked and camped all over this State, I know about the area in which you live. Having a Nephew that goes to Tennessee Tech, who I see often, I know about Cookeville.

Folks, this area that Courtney lives in is one of the most beautiful areas in the State, if not the Country.

I will take you on a tour (there is a purpose, and Courtney, I hope you don't mind :) )

One of my favorite places near you is Fall Creek Falls (http://state.tn.us/environment/parks/FallCreekFalls/)

http://state.tn.us/environment/parks/FallCreekFalls/images/main.jpg

An absolutely stunning place!

http://www.darklightimagery.net/newnature2/fcfalls3.jpg

http://www.terrylivingstone.com/1cc58930.jpg

And you went to school and worked at TTU (http://www.tntech.edu/). A well known and well respected school for Teaching and Engineering.

http://www.fws.gov/southeast/gis/images/derry_f.jpg




What's the purpose of this mini tour? Well, compare the above images to this!




http://images.scotsman.com/2006/07/21/2006-07-21T093140Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_2_OUKTP-UK-TRANSPORT-AIR-COMPLAINTS.jpg

http://www.atwairport.com/airport_security/images/air_port_security_photo.jpg

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:rJ3YjFNi0Pf0hM:http://www.portlandtn.com/BNATerminalNew.jpg

http://www.greatestcities.com/6685pic/333/CP26333.jpg/texas03.JPG

I guess what I am trying to say (with the photos) is if someone is use to a certain environment then thrown head first into a chaotic one (like airports CERTAINLY are!) then it can catch you off guard!

I am no professional... but based on my observations, and my own experiences, I think that is what hit you on that first flight. I am glad you posted about that, because that tells a lot.

You had some bad experiences on those flights, and told yourself "never again"! So, naturally when these new flights came along, it threw you.

And then add into that your personality of having a good grasp on things, and boom... it hit.

Again... just my observations as a complete amateur. In no way am I "analyzing"... just thinking out loud.

So... Let's say you agree... where to from here? Well (for me) knowing what was triggering my anxiety was half the battle. Because then you kind-of know how to attack it.

Airports are not familiar. So, make them familiar. Go there for lunch, dinner, whatever. Watch the planes, watch the people. But that has been discussed above, along with the idea of some short flights. All this stuff will help make commercial aviation more familiar, and eventually more comfortable.

Again... all of this is just my thoughts, and I certainly will not get offended if someone disagrees, or says... "Mark... What you been smoking!" :D
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[scaredy_cat]

Courtney -

I can understand how you feel. My first flight was to London when I was 33 years old. I had always had a vague fear of flying I suppose but it was never tested because there was never any reason for me to fly until then. Nothing unusual happened on my flights (4 legs) but it was all so new and scary and I was by myself, had no idea what any of the noises were or why things happened the way they did, it just freaked me out. The 4th leg was at night, delayed in Chicago for high winds, I had barely slept in 24 hours due to time difference, etc. I dont' know why but that flight was just enough for me. That's the one I would have gotten off the plane if I hadn't been frozen in my seat in fear. I don't really know what caused it, but even after my flight this past May, I'm back to thinking I will never fly again. I just can't face the thought of it.

Just the fact that you are considering another flight and seeing a counselor is a good thing and shows that you are determined to beat this. I'm sure there is something specific that set off your fears so bad this time and once you figure out what that was, you can work on overcoming it. Anyways, just my 2 cents worth. Hope it goes well for you!

:)

[Barb-SAN]

That was my first experiences on a plane. As you can see, nothing really all that incredibly wild happened, other than maybe the mechanic being on board. But, it was all in my mind way before I ever got on a plane. The preconceived notion to be scared was there and buried up inside me. Where did it come from? I can't say other than seeing the news images when I was a kid. That's all I can think of, so it had to be that. I think I'll just print this post off and take to the pyschologist so he can pick it apart.

Well, Courtney, it will be interesting to see what your psychologist says, and also interesting to see what you notice when you reread what you wrote here. This is the paragraph that jumps out at me...that your education about what to expect from flying was formed as a kid from "news images" (presumably scary ones involving crashes, since it's not "newsworthy" when a plane takes off and arrives safely at its destination).

It seems that having more education about flying could be very useful. I hope the behind-the-scenes tour that Mark has set up for Flight Fest will be a good start. The Curd's DVD about the Airbus is full of technical information about that plane. Capt. Chance's DVD is also a great resource.

You've told us you are a photographer...hence odds are that you are highly visual...also based on your responses to current TV programs on crashes and disasters. My THEORY....and this is based on personal experience, not professional training or credentials....is that your "way out" will involve some sort of a visual approach...maybe with photography and the creation of new, positive images related to flying.

This has been one of my own tactics, taking photos of planes, and aerial photos, and then studying them afterwards. I've got a good digital camera now (Nikon D-50 with 18-200 VR lens)...and entertain myself by getting a window seat on the plane, and taking photos for most of the flight, trying to correlate our position in the air with a map...seeing if I can stay oriented, and later printing out photos and identifying locations. I particularly look for airports & runways, perhaps looking forward to the day I might fly into them, either commercially or in a small plane (well, you never know!:lol: ). Often I'll include a shot of that massive jet engine on the commercial flights as a reminder of what is moving us forward, steady, stable, and reliable. Depending on where I'm seated, I might get shots of the wing, the ailerons moving in a turn, etc. It all helps to keep me focused on what is happening RIGHT NOW...not some scary "what if" scenario.


A lot of my time flying in the Cessna has also been devoted to photography...the take-offs and landings (with the instructor flying), and then scenic shots of San Diego. I'm trying to imprint my brain with images of being up in the air...what the view is like, what it feels like to move around in 3 dimensions, and the beauty and uniqueness of that perspective. The photographs (printed 12 X 18) help to extend that flying experience. I've also gone to the IMAX theater a few times to watch movies that involve flying...either scenic or Blue Angels sort of flying...good practice in keeping yourself calm when you are in no real danger, but the visuals are exciting.

Well...hope you are feeling better today, and enjoy your visit to the airport to pick up Don. Hope all works out with finding and working with a therapist, and do keep us posted...it may well be information that can help others too!:thumbsup:

The first two photos are from the observation area at Albuquerque Airport. That's a great spot to relax...it's one level above the regular terminal, and was very quiet and peaceful when I was there. You have a good view of planes being refueled, luggage being loaded, take-off, etc, and comfortable chairs in which to relax. I liked the dedication too: "Dedicated to the children of Albuquerque. May the eternal wonder of flight cause your imagination to soar.":cool:

The plane is being fueled...gas tanks are in the wings.
The third picture is somewhere over New Mexico, headed west. Love that sturdy Boeing jet engine, and vivid SWA colors...and it's so peaceful flying above that layer of cottony clouds!:)

[EyesSkyward]

Woah... back up a second... you got to go to MacWorld!!?!

I am officially jealous. :sigh:

- Jeff

P.S. I'm sure you know now to treat very carefully things "taken out of context". And you're probably also correct that the various triggers were merely unearthing something that was there anyway, rather than causing it. But, just because I couldn't let it pass, the FO's comment about almost being out of fuel was no big whoop.

For one, I'm sure they meant they were getting close to the point where they would be dipping into the reserve amount of extra fuel that they are legally required to have. Not that the tanks were literally going dry.

For two, even if the latter was the case, there's no way an airplane would just circle around an airport and run out of fuel simply because the tower wouldn't "let them land". They would let ATC know of their fuel situation, and they would be given priority. (And if there was some evil supervillian in the tower would still wouldn't give them permission, the FO would just land the plane anyway. Pilots can deviate from ATC instructions if they need to do so in order to respond to an emergency situation.)

- Jeff

[aerobat]

ES Jeff said:

For one, I'm sure they meant they were getting close to the point where they would be dipping into the reserve amount of extra fuel that they are legally required to have. Not that the tanks were literally going dry.

For two, even if the latter was the case, there's no way an airplane would just circle around an airport and run out of fuel simply because the tower wouldn't "let them land". They would let ATC know of their fuel situation, and they would be given priority. (And if there was some evil supervillian in the tower would still wouldn't give them permission, the FO would just land the plane anyway. Pilots can deviate from ATC instructions if they need to do so in order to respond to an emergency situation.)

I will second this. :thumbsup: Thanks, Jeff!
They could have almost been out of the fuel that allowed them to remain in a holding pattern until cleared to land at that airport. They would still have had sufficient reserve to fly to an alternate airport where the weather was better--a specific alternate determined before they ever took off.

I have been in a sitch like this (August 1996), holding outside Chicago at night on my way back home from Baffin Island via Westchester County. We pax could see the lights of stacked-up planes above and below, and bad weather between us and the airport, and clouds all around, with breaks in them. The pilots kept us posted; fortunately they were the talkative sort. We, too, were almost out of our "holding" fuel, and several other planes below us had already jumped and gone to alternates (the pilots told us this, too). But then we got clearance to land :eek: :tongue: :lol: and it was a rock 'n' roll ride down final through the turb. But it was just what I wanted--the post-FoF recovery turb challenge I had been waiting for, and because of my new knowledge, I was ready for it. Had I been a first-time nervous flier, that experience right there could have kicked me into bigtime FoF.

Evil supervillain in the tower?:lol: heh heh...imagine Dr. Octopus up there, grabbing planes and squeezing them...er, no, Courtney...don't imagine this! Imagine friendly and wise faces up there who are doing everything to keep you safe. I have met a lot of controllers, and they are worthy of our trust and then some.

Y'know, I agree very much with what has been suggested by Mark and others above. The world of airports and aircraft is radically different from that of quiet, small towns in the mountains, and when one hasn't flown as a child, it can be a shock to an adult flying alone on the first flight, or even flying with someone else, if their concerns are not being addressed. I had flown once on a commercial airliner (and once in a floatplane) before my FoF developed, and I am certain that unfamiliarity was a big part of it for me.

And there were some horrific news stories about air disasters during the nineties. I will not resurrect them now, but anyone can reflect on them. Courtney, with the guidance of a professional, you may choose to reflect on them as a means of "detoxing" them; that can be part of the process of recovery. But it has to be done systematically and with a strategy to replace those images with positive ones. Remember that this is about reprogramming some haywire neural circuitry. So it's important to be willing to let the negative images go, and to no longer believe they are protecting us. This is where knowledge and statistics can really be helpful: they help get us ready to let the B movie go when the time comes to craft a new, positive one. :happyguy:

Barb

[cshollingsworth]

Mark,

Wow...what an impact images can sometimes make. Yes, things are very serene around here where I live and work. It's very post-card material indeed. And it's always so relaxed. I live in a rural town, know basically everyone in town. The high school where I teach in a neighboring county has more of a population than my city in which I reside. :rolleyes: At the high school, we have around 1800 students and in the "city" in which I live, there are roughly about 890 people, with about 5,000 county wide.

Most of my day is filled with the routine stuff. Class starts with a bell, we have specific times for everything, lunch, changing classes, going home, etc. It's all mundane and downpat. Not a lot of surprises except sometimes the behavior of my students, which to be honest, can get scary at times.

So, really, I got the visual imageary as being spot-on in what you were saying Mark. And I have to agree. You take me out of my normal routine, my comfort-zone and I start trying to adapt and overcompensate for the unknown. That's what I think I've been trying to do on the board here, ask all kinds of questions from the emotionally spurred questions to the technical. I feel the need to rush out and learn everything I can about flight in order to brace myself for what I might run into at the airport or on the plane.

My husband called a little while ago and said he is at the airport in PHL. He said he was eating a bacon cheeseburger, fries and a coke he got all for $6.00 at an airport BK. He was so incredibly calm. How can he eat? That amazes me. My stomach right now would be churning and I would be dashing off to the bathroom and back constantly. But, there he is, eating and enjoying his lunch. I'm here at home, finishing up getting ready and then I'm leaving early for BNA where I'm going to hang out and wait on him. I may possibly track his flight from the business center. Not sure, yet.

Barb-San...we have photography in common. I still do family portraits and weddings for people "on the side." The last 2 times that I flew, I took my camera (Canon 10D with 28-135mm image stablizer lens) with me. I took pictures in air and it was a good thing to do in order to get my mind on something besides the fear. I was busy with camera settings, focusing, looking for things to take pics of, etc. I was trying to convince myself I was on assignment so to speak. And it did help. I enlarged some of my flight photos and I have them here at home. But, now, since Saturday, when I look at them I feel a bit ridiculed, almost as if I'm being taunted by the very pictures I took. It has only been a reminder to me of how offensive this fear can be. It allowed me to fly in February only to rear its ugly head Saturday and keep me at home, loosing 5 days with my husband I will never be able to regain. It makes me angry when I think of it.

This morning I woke up around 3 a.m. and found myself wanting to just drive on to BNA and hope on the earliest flight to PHL and hang out at the airport only to fly home again with Don this afternoon. Just to prove to myself I can do this. Then I thought, no...this is all too much, just wait until Don and I can fly together and do it that way.

Personality wise, I have no patience. Maybe you can tell in some of my posts. So, sitting here for 5 days waiting on Don to come home and put this behind us has been horrible.

I just know that I have to do something about this fear and force it to go away, not on its terms but on mine.

[noflyingfan]

Courtney,

I think Mark was on target with his comments about your going from a calm environment to a busy one. Airports are goofy places, and they aren't really comparable to any other place. You only go there for one or two reasons, and there are special procedures for everything. And although many airports used to let people who weren't passengers go to the gates to see their loved ones off, you can't do that anymore, so most of the airport is an "inner sanctum" that you can't get to unless you have a ticket, making the airport itself even more mysterious. But I wholeheartedly agree with Mark that spending some time at your airport and watching planes take off and land would be very beneficial.

I thought your post about your first experiences with flying was very interesting. I see two patterns, and while neither are earth-shattering, I want to mention them.

Number one is, you backed out of your very first flight! And you've been backing out of flights ever since. Once you give yourself permission to slip up, you keep slipping up. Well, never again, Corki. Next time you book a ticket, you are going to get on that plane, and you are gonna be happy about it, darnit! :tongue:

Number two is, every time you've booked a flight it's been out of duty, or you've been trying to prove something, like the MacWorld trip. When you said that your would-be first flight was for a business trip with your boss, I thought, bingo! A few weeks ago, I had to drive with my boss to a place about an hour away for a meeting, and I didn't want to go. Being out of the office with one's boss (unless you're good pals, or unless you do it all the time) is always a little awkward, so going on a big business trip and your first plane trip at the same time, geez, no wonder. Other times you've flown have been for work or with Don on his business trips. And remember the flight you backed out of before the infamous bus ride to get married?

Maybe part of your fear is that of unfamiliar and uncomfortable experiences, and not just dealing with flying, but the experiences you'll have once you get where you're going. No matter how much you know you'll enjoy them. The last time I flew, I was petrified, and I hadn't been that scared in a long, long time. But that's because I knew when I landed, I was going to be driving into an area where there was a tropical storm. The storm wasn't yet to where I was flying into (that was a few hours away), so the flight and the storm weren't related whatsoever. But my fear of the storm turned into a fear of the flight. And the first time I remember being really, really scared, sure I would die, I was leaving the country for the first time, and I was flying alone. I was 17, and it was so exciting to be taking the trip, but it was new and different, so I was scared.

And while I am not generally a timid person, I always get more of those "what if I die" thoughts when I'm doing something new or unfamiliar. I don't think about crashing my car while driving to work, but I do think about it while driving into the city to visit friends or go to a ball game. I don't think about someone breaking in and killing me when I get into my bed at night, but I do think about it when I stay in a hotel.

So maybe your practice flights should be to familiar places with familiar people and familiar things. Going out to dinner with family or friends, like you mentioned. I'm sure you've done that countless times. So when you get on that plane, you won't be thinking, "I'm going to a strange new place I've never seen to do things I've never done" but "I'm going to a place I know well with people I know well and enjoy."

I hope you don't mind that we're all finding you such a fascinating case study, Courtney. :) But we are all here for you and rooting for you, and I think others will agree with me when I say that I wish I could be there when you step off of the first flight you really enjoy, because all the agony you've been through and all the work you've done is going to be so worth it, and you're going to be smiling from ear to ear.

Erika

[tabbygirl]

PassengerMark said:

So... Let's say you agree... where to from here? Well (for me) knowing what was triggering my anxiety was half the battle. Because then you kind-of know how to attack it.

I was involved once in a program to deal with generalized anxiety, and this is exactly the approach they started with: learning to identify your triggers.

So: great advice! (It's a HUGE first step.)

Courtney, your post was really interesting. It really is so easy to go from calm to OMG!!! in seconds flat when you have a good imagination and also like to know exactly what is going on...I recognize those reactions as similar to ones I've had in unfamilar situations. Everything that scared you seems to be something that a therapist dealing with fear of flying would be able to demystify for you, I think. (I realize you've demystified a lot of them for yourself by now, with the information here :) )

In short, you're starting some good work by remembering what your triggers were, and as you proceed with tackling the fear, everything will come together for you.

GOOD LUCK! I know you can do it, and YOU know we're here for you.

PS:
Yes, things are very serene around here where I live and work. It's very post-card material indeed. And it's always so relaxed. I live in a rural town, know basically everyone in town. The high school where I teach in a neighboring county has more of a population than my city in which I reside. :rolleyes: At the high school, we have around 1800 students and in the "city" in which I live, there are roughly about 890 people, with about 5,000 county wide.
Sounds like heaven to me. I am so burned out on urban life right now.

Those pictures Mark posted are stunningly beautiful!

[aerobat]

I just know that I have to do something about this fear and force it to go away, not on its terms but on mine.

And at this moment, you are probably closer to really doing this than you have ever been! Motivation is half the battle, and you, girl, are motivated. So, go whup some FoF ass. :)

[Passenger Mark]

Airports are goofy places, and they aren't really comparable to any other place.

Did I tell you the one about the ole farmer sitting outside the big airport?

He had never seen an airplane, much less an airport. He sat there in amazement as he watched people go and come out of this odd building.

After a while he began to notice that the people that went in, never came out! And the people that did come out had never gone in! This perplexed him as he wondered how this was happening.

Soon he saw an old woman go in, and out came a beautiful woman. Then another, and another, and another. With that he went and got his wife to show her! :D

Those pictures Mark posted are stunningly beautiful!

When I went back to look, it missed one. Go look again. Fall Creek Falls is a fabulous place. I have spent many a summer there. I encourage anyone who is in the area to visit it.
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[cshollingsworth]

Fall Creek Falls is about a 15 minute drive from our house. Van Buren county is one of the coolest places because of the scenery around here. There are lots of overlooks, valley, streams, wildlife, you get my drift. It's just the picture of calm around here. We have a low crime rate too. And to boot, my 1st cousin Kelly is the county mayor. :) Don's father helped to start rural telephone service in this county back in the 40's...that's how come Don sits on the phone board today. And now, Ben Lomand Telephone is the 3rd largest rural provider in the United States. So, we have a very rich history here in our little neck of the woods.

Right now, as I type, Don is on a SWA plane heading towards Raleigh, NC for a 20 min. stop and then on to BNA. I'm just about to walk out the door and head to Nashville and wait on him to arrive. I hope the other phone people that went do not look at me all funny and like I'm crazy when they get off the plane with him. I hate feeling ridiculed and some of those older ladies that have traveled and been around look at me like I'm incompetent.

Don told me that he is going to ask one of the FA's if any airline still gives the fearful flyer classes like American used to do (maybe it was United) but one of them used to do that. I think they stopped it after 9-11. And why? I think they should have the classes again if they did truly stop them. Look at me, I'd be the first person in line!

Mark, if you have any insiders at SWA, you should tell them to think about starting up a program where us FoF's can go sit in class and learn some stuff to help calm us and trust in the aircraft. I'm sure maybe you have suggested it, but they could charge big bucks and I would still sign up.

OK gang, I'm off to BNA. I'm also going to "pretend" I'm going there to board a plane and just see how my heartrate does for me today. I'll let you all know.

CH

[Barb-SAN]

Courtney,

Number one is, you backed out of your very first flight! And you've been backing out of flights ever since. Once you give yourself permission to slip up, you keep slipping up. Well, never again, Corki. Next time you book a ticket, you are going to get on that plane, and you are gonna be happy about it, darnit! :tongue:

Number two is, every time you've booked a flight it's been out of duty, or you've been trying to prove something, like the MacWorld trip. When you said that your would-be first flight was for a business trip with your boss, I thought, bingo! A few weeks ago, I had to drive with my boss to a place about an hour away for a meeting, and I didn't want to go. Being out of the office with one's boss (unless you're good pals, or unless you do it all the time) is always a little awkward, so going on a big business trip and your first plane trip at the same time, geez, no wonder. Other times you've flown have been for work or with Don on his business trips. And remember the flight you backed out of before the infamous bus ride to get married?......

Maybe part of your fear is that of unfamiliar and uncomfortable experiences, and not just dealing with flying, but the experiences you'll have once you get where you're going. No matter how much you know you'll enjoy them. .....

I hope you don't mind that we're all finding you such a fascinating case study, Courtney. :) .....Erika

Erika, This is such a good post...very perceptive, I think. I'm curious to see if it is "on target" with Courtney.

I agree, Courtney is a "fascinating case study" because she is so open and honest with her feelings and experiences. I find it equally fascinating to look at this entire thread, and see so many different viewpoints. Most of us have fear of flying (past or present) in common...but are from all over the country, different ages, male and female, different life experiences, different perspectives. We all start with the same "Courtney information" but come up with completely different responses to it.

This is something to keep in mind when looking for a therapist as well. Therapists are individuals too, and some will "click" with us better than others. Ultimately WE are the consumers of therapeutic help and advice, so need to decide if the "product" is useful, or we need to keep searching until we find a therapist who "clicks" with our own style.

[noflyingfan]

Therapists are individuals too, and some will "click" with us better than others. Ultimately WE are the consumers of therapeutic help and advice, so need to decide if the "product" is useful, or we need to keep searching until we find a therapist who "clicks" with our own style.

This is true. And like you said, we're all different too but have such different opinions. And not just about Courtney's fear but about anyone's fear of flying. What works for me might not work for you, and vice versa. But it's still interesting to have all of these points of view coming together; I think everybody's comments and observations have been valid, and even if they don't apply to Courtney, they might apply to someone else.

[Barb-SAN]

But it's still interesting to have all of these points of view coming together; I think everybody's comments and observations have been valid, and even if they don't apply to Courtney, they might apply to someone else.

Precisely.:)

[Passenger Mark]

This is true. And like you said, we're all different too but have such different opinions. And not just about Courtney's fear but about anyone's fear of flying. What works for me might not work for you, and vice versa. But it's still interesting to have all of these points of view coming together; I think everybody's comments and observations have been valid, and even if they don't apply to Courtney, they might apply to someone else.

Precisely... Precisely! :D

Normally, I would try to not let one subject on one individual in the group go on this long. Please don't take that wrong... Not being rude, I just would not want to overshadow others. However Erica hit the nail on the head on this, as has Barb.

Courtney has been very open, and we have seen this go from the start. (Thank you Courtney!) But sorry you had to have such a crap weekend to make it happen! :)

We have over 1,000 lurkers from unique users a day! The folks that post here are only the tip of the iceberg. There are tons of folks reading this stuff.

I would like to think that there are folks out there reading it, and saying... Wow!!! I am not alone. I can identify with that!

BTW... I am very upset that no-one laughed at my old man joke! :cry:
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[noflyingfan]

BTW... I am very upset that no-one laughed at my old man joke! :cry:
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Alright, everybody, let's all laugh politely for the owner of the site. :lol: :lol: :lol: :rolleyes:

:D

[Barb-SAN]

We have over 1,000 lurkers from unique users a day! The folks that post here are only the tip of the iceberg. There are tons of folks reading this stuff. Gulp!:blush:


BTW... I am very upset that no-one laughed at my old man joke! :cry:

:lol: :D :lol: :D :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :lol: :loco: :pokefun:

[cshollingsworth]

Mark,
I missed your joke! Somehow in my reading, I missed it! But, here is a laugh anyway...:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

I'm going to report just a tad here on my experience at BNA today and then I'm going to conclude with some "news" and just end it on that note. Because, seriously, this is like the never ending thread. You guys can still PM me if you want after I tell you our plans. And I think you will appreciate what I have to say because it is taking a few of your suggestions and rolling them into one.

BNA was good today. Mark, you will laugh when I tell you what I did when I started through the short-term parking. You know how when you head up toward the flat-escalator thing that whisks you along like a moving sidewalk it starts telling you stuff over the PA? Like, watch your step, do this do that...well, you know what I did today? When it started yapping orders, I said under my breath of course, "Shut up!" So I kept walking and went up the escalator, crossed the covered outside area, heard more orders from the PA and just said a calm, quiet, "Shut up, already." I moved in the building, past the ticketing check-in areas. Lots of people. I went near security, I saw them making people put their toiletries in plastic bags if they had not done so already. I moved on to the Capitol Grill area and sat down. I checked my pulse, 96. That's not all that odd for me because I have sinus tachycardia anyway. So, I took deep breaths. I closed my eyes. I sat in a white rocking chair watching the planes come in and take off. I felt good enough to cross my legs and just rock. Checked pulse again later, 90 bpm. Not bad. I didn't go look at the arrivals board constantly like I had done before when Don was coming home. I just sat there, in my own little serene world. I played a game of bowling on my cell phone. I watched TSA agents moving about. I looked for celebs. I'd spotted PacMan Jones of the TN Titans on Monday (not saying much) and a local news woman on Saturday, but none today.

The only time I got halfway concerned was at one point I looked out and saw the Sky5 helicopter coming over the airport and then I saw 2 yellow firetrucks dashing towards the runway followed by an airport police car. I stood up and went to the window to get a better look, but they went so far out the runway I could not tell where they went. About the time I was standing looking out the window, my cell phone rang and it was Don. "We're on the ground," Don said. "Coming across the tarmac." Obviously, he had not waited until the plane stopped rolling to make his phone call, so I told him I was glad to know he was on the ground and safe.

I met him at the security gate and despite the odd looks I got from some of his colleagues walking with him, he grabbed me and hugged me and kissed me right in front of them. They were peeking at us to see our little greeting. I went with him to get his bags and felt guilty. I knew I had missed out on a great trip. He looked refreshed and handsome, rested, and I found myself regretting I had stayed behind.

We went to the car, to Demos for dinner and back home. We talked and made plans the whole way back home.

Our 1 yr. anniversary is coming up very soon. We talked about places to go, even if just for 3 days. We talked about my FoF. He told me what an FA told him to tell me. She had said SWA has no FoF program and that I should simply just "Have faith." Perhaps easier sometimes said than done, but nevertheless...coming from an FA...words to the wise.

So, we decided something...that we are going to St. Augustine, FL for our 1 yr. anniversary and gang, since I have that big SWA credit...guess what we are going to do with it? That's right...we used it toward the purchase of 2 tickets to Jacksonville, FL and plan to rent a car and drive on from there to St. Augustine. I know what some of you may think, "it's too soon." Maybe it is, but I have to start somewhere. And, luckily, Don is willing to be an active participant in my FoF recovery too. I can do this you guys...I can. It will be just after Flight Fest at BNA and I'm going to work on it in the meanwhile. We have agreed to go bi-weekly on the weekend and eat at the grill in the airport. I'm going to work on this FoF like never before and as Aerobat says, "Whup it's ass." ;)

[tabbygirl]

Courtney, this is exciting! I think you will be amazed at how much progress you can make quickly when you're at this point of being determined. Just an hour or two talking to a FOF therapist might do the trick.

Anyway, as you recognize, you have time to do a LOT, and you certainly have the motivation. I was so happy to read this post.

If you want to PM me about anything, please do!

[noflyingfan]

Courtney! What great news!

My last suggestion to you (for now) is this.

Print out this thread. Read it, reread it, and reread it again. Remind yourself what a terrible weekend you had and how sorry you were that you missed out on this trip. Don't let yourself forget it.

Backing out of a flight is temporary relief, but look what agony it caused you in the long run -- do you feel any relief whatsoever? It's like refusing to go to the doctor when you're really sick; it does a lot of harm and absolutely no good.

So go kick some FoF butt!

[EyesSkyward]

Our 1 yr. anniversary is coming up very soon.

Wow, is it really? Seems like only yesterday.

Whether you fly or not, time sure does!

- Jeff