we drooped down twice

[agnieszka]

I am European, but living in Asia, I have a family in Australia. I need to travel often. I am very very scared.
On 747 Frankfurt - New Zealand very seriouse turbulences over Hawaii. It was going on for few hours. We were jumping up and down and all around the plane. It was Lufthansa.
But my biggest and most scary flight was on Cathey Pacific Airbus from Asia to Melbourne.
The flight takes 9 hours. Just after 4 hours we had some rather small turbulences. Suddnly the plane was going down and I couldn't see normaly, everything was blarry. It was only few seconds, then stoped. Then it happend again, just few seconds after the first drop it happend again very strong dop down . Oh my God, eveyone was awake and it was one big scream inside the plane. Then the EXIT sign was turn on. I thought it was end of my life. Since then I am sooo scared that I can't walk inside the plane. I am scared of being closed in the cabin. I think I have a panic attacks. I can't even write about it. I am sooo scared. In 3 weeks I need to go to London on 747 Quantas airlines. What to do?
I am scared of turbulences and most important air pockets? What is air pocket? was it air pocket on my way to Melbourne? What can happen?

Thank you very much for any information.

Aga

[spleisher]

I am scared of turbulences and most important air pockets? What is air pocket? was it air pocket on my way to Melbourne? What can happen?

There is actually no such thing as an "air pocket". Turbulence is caused by air currents moving in different directions. Essentially, it's wind.

Turbulence poses no threat to the airplane. In fact, airplanes are built to withstand much, much more force than you will ever see in a turbulence event in nature.

Welcome to the board, by the way!

If you search the forums, you will find a wealth of information about turbulence, and anything else you may be worried about.

[EyesSkyward]

If you search the forums, you will find a wealth of information about turbulence, and anything else you may be worried about.
Yup! I posted a bit about these so-called "air pockets" before. You can read the post here (http://www.takingflight.us/forums/showpost.php?p=24613&postcount=3). (Bottom line: It's a silly term!)

Also, I think people sometimes tend to mistakenly believe that the plane is going to fall if there's a lot of turbulence. As if it's balanced on something, and too much of a jolt will "knock it off".

Well that's not true at all! The airplane is held up by all the air around it. If the air shakes around a lot, then the airplane shakes around a lot. But the air is nonetheless still holding it up. The plane is still supported just as well as it was before the turbulence.

(One trick is to imagine that the airplane is like a chunk of fruit suspended in Jello--a type of gelatin. You can shake the Jello all you want, and the fruit is not going to fall to the bottom.)

Welcome to Taking Flight! :tiphat:

- Jeff

[Falcon]

The term air pocket is used to try and illustrate something complex quickly. It is misleading and they dont exists. At high altitudes the major cause of turbulence is jet streams which are stronger in the winter. As you can see from this site you are not alone and can now talk with many other new friends who have the same feelings as yourself. Welcome aboard.

[agnieszka]

Thank you for sending fast reply.

Maybe I just read to much about this air pockets etc. This is what I got from google ages ago. That's why I joined this web to ask more about this. Maybe I just had a bad luck on the last flight to MLB. Hope wont happend again! It was realy much stronger then just turbulence. We were going down and down for some time. :eek:

From google:
air pocket - a local region of low pressure or descending air that causes a plane to lose height suddenly

Thank you for everything. I feel better reading all this mails. Now I know how many poeple are scared of planes.

Take care, Agnieszka:cheers:

[Agne]

Hello Agniezka, I just wanted to add my welcome to Taking Flight! Hey, we have the same name (my name's Agnese, but friends call me Agne). Where are you from?

I am afraid of turbulence too, especially when it's sudden and unexpected. In particular, I don't like when the plane drops. When I was a child I used to enjoy it. I thought it was fun, like a roller coaster ride. :shocked:

[tabbygirl]

Turbulence can be scary, all right, but it might not seem quite so bad if you remember that for every "down" there is an "up." You can sometimes distract yourself by noticing that. I find it comforting!

The Jello trick that Jeff describes actually helped me deal with turbulence more than anything else!

[dreamcore]

Hi There,

Thanks For All You Input Here,,,the Jello Thought Really Is A Good One,,,,tho...its Not As Simple As That...

The Fruit,,,will Stay In Jello,,,even With A Bite Out...tho A Plane With A Wing Off....?

My Flight From Portugal To Scotland (october) Two Years Since,,,sounds Just Like Wot Has Been Talked About Here,,

Only My Cabin Crew Looked Afraid, People Were Screaming And Still They Didnt Get On The Pa And Try And Get People To Carm Down. No Crew Member Said A Word,,,,it Just Happened Without Warning,, And Continued Till The Plane Landed...
(our Pilot Didnt Have Good English To Start With Tho)

I Remember A Light Above The Pilot Door...flashing,,,the A Same Cabin Crew Member Would Leave Her Seat And Talk Into The Handset To The Pilot,,,,tho,,she Never Said Anythin To Us?

I Was To Fly Back Out Of Scotland And To Tenerife The Next Day. But Now Thanking God I Was On The Ground,,,wasnt Going To Get Back On Without Trying To Find Out Wot Happened......tho,,,no One Could Give Answers,,

My Questions Then?
* Wot Was The Pilot Light Telling The Cabin Crew..

* Why Werent We Warned..or Told Nothing Was To Worry About...

Im Thinking Maybe A Fear Of Flyin Day Will Help Me?

Many Thanks

David

[MathFox]

dreamcore: :welcome2:

You would benefit a lot from proper knowledge about planes and flying. A plane is designed to take quite a beating in turbulence and keep on flying, "structurally intact" and "controllable" (which implies that the wings remain connected to the body)

If you are in severe turbulence the best place is "strapped in your seat". You don't want to become a loose object bumping around in the cabin. The plane can take the beating. Anyway, pilots try to avoid the worst bumps, for passenger comfort (and to keep the coffee in their cups :D)

Im Thinking Maybe A Fear Of Flyin Day Will Help Me?
Yes, I think it will help you... On the other hand, there might be more behind it all than just the turbulence; problems with lack of control of the situation?

[dreamcore]

hey,,,thanks very much for your reply..

i'll tell you a little more about me,,

As a kid,,i hated show rides,,,for the reason you just gave,,,i hate to be in a car,,and not drving it....lol...

Tho with planes..i didnt fly till i was older,,,and i had 9 flights in one week....so learn quickly to love it...

After hijacks on 9/11.....i didnt enjoy flying so much.,,and i watched everyone.....tho i wasnt afraid....the day i had my bad flight i even joked with my girlfriend about the plane crashing....

But when it happened.....i cant describe how i was feeling,,,,(well i can) like i was going to die....total lack of control....and im a fighter at heart...in any other place..if my life was at risk...i wouldnt accept it...

Now....i kinda have flash backs about it....i was on a train,,,and the train started jumping about abit,,,and right away,,,i felt how i felt that moment in the plane...

ive seen things on tv..and again,,im there ...i can see everything..... over and over again....

so if im honest,,,i'll admit,,,i like to feel i have control, so that not to feel hurt,,,fear,,or pain...

One last thing....
if i had not been in the window seat,,,,i would have been trying to pull the doors open to get out,,,

i know it sounds mad... but i just wanted to get off...i was screaming,,,(get me off this F8cking plane...)

talking about it now is drving me mad,,,,

lol.....i defo going on a fear of flying day...

:)

[Falcon]

That feeling in your stomach isnt nice is it? I used to get it as a kid but after flying for so long I dint even feel it on roller coasters anymore.

[dreamcore]

so can anyone answer....why nothing was told to us....when everyone was in panic....the cabin crew or pilot said nothing? i understand there are at least two pilots?

and like i said there in my other post,,,one cabin crew girl would answer to a light above to pilot door..but not relay any instructions to us???

at a moment of panic and fear during a flight...were not just a few,,,but everyone was in fear for there life....did they not tell us everything was to be ok???

i think....if they had just got on the pa,,and said,,,please everyone,,,everything is going to be ok....i would have chilled out,,,but it was the fact that even they were speechless...made it 100 times worse for me,,,

thanks again

[Kimmar]

Hello and welcome! You've come to the right place to get over your fear. You'll find lots of company here, and lots of good resources.

Pilots here can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm thinking you experienced the "rare" Clear Air Turbulence. It can't be seen on a radar (though they are working on that) so can take people quite by surprise. It's happened a couple of times in the last year in my country, two different airlines both had to land the planes and let off hurt passengers and crew. They were all hurt *only* because they were not seat belted in during the flight and got flung around.

Air Canada has since made it *mandatory* to wear your seatbelt through out the entire flight unless you are out of your seat. A smart move I think. It will reduce even further the only realistic injuries one could sustain when flying.

The reason the pilots didn't talk to you? There could be many, but I'd venture to say they were radioing the nearest control tower with a pilot report, so that *all* other airplanes in the area would divert around that *known* area of Clear Air Turbulence, insuring that others don't experience it. (It's called a Pirep, - Pilot Report and is mandatory that they report that kind of turbulence right away.) They probably also contacted the Flight Attendant to find out if there were any injuries, and hearing there were none decided to go on about their business. You have to remember that to them this is "routine" and not a threat, ever. If they didn't have passengers on a plane they'd simply fly straight through turbulence as it is *no* threat at all to them or the plane.

Pilots (for the most part) probably assume that everyone on board is as comfortable flying as they are and didn't think to ask or explain what just happened because they didn't see it as a big deal. And they are right. Scary to some, yes, but a big deal? Nope. Not unless you didn't have a seatbelt on.

[Falcon]

We could be also falling into the trap that this is our work place. A bit of turbulence that we know well doesnt feel that bad, on go the seat belts and we talk to air traffic to see if there is any smoother air around or we wait it out to see how it goes. Prehaps we should reasure our passengers more.

[Barb-SAN]

Prehaps we should reasure our passengers more.
You could consider it "job security"...even if there's just one scared passenger on the flight...you want to keep that person flying in the future, and not taking the train or driving....:D

[Falcon]

I know I know. :tongue:

We must remember the passengers see things differently. Looking at the crew in the cabin go about their business should reasure people about light chop.

Failing that our bored chestnut pilots voice shoud do the trick. We spent many hours perfecting it at the begining of our careers in Cessna 152s.

[Passenger Mark]

It is funny what our brain goes through!

Prior to when I started talking to the flight crews, I would imagine all sorts of things during turbulence.

This is what would happen... and what my brain was thinking.

- Cruising along when we begin some minor bumps, increasing to heavier chop.

MARK'S BRAIN: THE AIRCRAFT IS LOSING IT'S BALANCE. WE ARE ABOUT TO GO TUMBLING OUT OF THE SKY!

- Seat belt light goes on with a "ding".

MARK' BRAIN: THAT SIGNAL "DING" IS TELLING THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS THAT WE ARE ABOUT TO BE ON THE EVENING NEWS... PARTS OF THE PLANE EVERYWHERE, CHARED AND BURNING.

Actually the pilots turned it on so no-one goes bumping down the aisle and get hurts.

- More bumping!!!!!!

MARK'S BRAIN: THIS IS IT! WE ARE ABOUT TO DIE! MY BRAIN PICTURES THE PILOTS UP FRONT CURSING AND CRYING... STRAINING EVERY MUSCLE TO KEEP THE PLANE IN THE AIR. SWEAT IS PORING OFF THEIR BROWS... THEY ARE SCREAMING AND PLEADING ON THE RADIO FOR HELP.

Actually... the pilots feel the bumps... are a bit annoyed that they may have to slow down and be late. Turn on the seat-belt light, and check on the radio for clearer air. They "might" put their coffee down.

- One flight attendant says "something" to another. The one that she speaks to goes hustling down the aisle, while the first one straps herself in... with a "concerned" look on her face.

MARK'S BRAIN: NOW THIS IS A CLEAR SIGNAL THAT ALL IS NOT WELL! THAT FLIGHT ATTENDANT JUST TOLD THE OTHER THAT WE ARE ABOUT TO CRASH! SHE LOOKS CONCERNED BECAUSE SHE IS THINKING OF HER FAMILY AND LOVED ONES!

Actually they had just started the beverage service. The first attendant told the other to make sure everything in the rear galley is stowed and to take her seat. The first attendant is not concerned as much as she is annoyed because they had just started the beverage service... and now they have to put it all up only to get it back out later!

- I can hear the engines increase... the pitch becomes noticeable!

MARK'S BRAIN: THE PILOTS ARE FIGHTING TO STAY IN THE AIR. THEY ARE GIVING THE ENGINES ALL THAT THEY HAVE!

Actually they are throttling up to gain altitude to find smother air.

- The air begins to smooth out, the plane settles back into a nice cruise.

MARK'S BRAIN: WE NARROWLY MADE IT. ONCE AGAIN I HAVE CHEATED DEATH.

Actually... everything is, and has been perfectly normal. The pilots go back to checking weather, watching the scenery, and chatting with each other.

The flight attendants go back to the beverage service... and checking on that nervous passenger in 6A.... ME!

[dreamcore]

Thanks again, VERY much... you have answered my questions smashing :)

In feb, i'll be off the newcastle in england for my fear of flyin day with VIRGIN,

I'll be sure to pop back and let you know how i got on...

If i fly again, i really hope to, i'll be off to the USA....and plan to during the summer so to hit clear skies..


Many thanks again,

David Moralee :grouphug:

[Falcon]

Good luck with that, dont forget to enjoy the day. When you are there ask all the questions you want there is no such thing as a silly one.

[Kimmar]

It is funny what our brain goes through!

Prior to when I started talking to the flight crews, I would imagine all sorts of things during turbulence.

This is what would happen... and what my brain was thinking.

- Cruising along when we begin some minor bumps, increasing to heavier chop.

MARK'S BRAIN: THE AIRCRAFT IS LOSING IT'S BALANCE. WE ARE ABOUT TO GO TUMBLING OUT OF THE SKY!

- Seat belt light goes on with a "ding".

MARK' BRAIN: THAT SIGNAL "DING" IS TELLING THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS THAT WE ARE ABOUT TO BE ON THE EVENING NEWS... PARTS OF THE PLANE EVERYWHERE, CHARED AND BURNING.

Actually the pilots turned it on so no-one goes bumping down the aisle and get hurts.

- More bumping!!!!!!

MARK'S BRAIN: THIS IS IT! WE ARE ABOUT TO DIE! MY BRAIN PICTURES THE PILOTS UP FRONT CURSING AND CRYING... STRAINING EVERY MUSCLE TO KEEP THE PLANE IN THE AIR. SWEAT IS PORING OFF THEIR BROWS... THEY ARE SCREAMING AND PLEADING ON THE RADIO FOR HELP.

Actually... the pilots feel the bumps... are a bit annoyed that they may have to slow down and be late. Turn on the seat-belt light, and check on the radio for clearer air. They "might" put their coffee down.

- One flight attendant says "something" to another. The one that she speaks to goes hustling down the aisle, while the first one straps herself in... with a "concerned" look on her face.

MARK'S BRAIN: NOW THIS IS A CLEAR SIGNAL THAT ALL IS NOT WELL! THAT FLIGHT ATTENDANT JUST TOLD THE OTHER THAT WE ARE ABOUT TO CRASH! SHE LOOKS CONCERNED BECAUSE SHE IS THINKING OF HER FAMILY AND LOVED ONES!

Actually they had just started the beverage service. The first attendant told the other to make sure everything in the rear galley is stowed and to take her seat. The first attendant is not concerned as much as she is annoyed because they had just started the beverage service... and now they have to put it all up only to get it back out later!

- I can hear the engines increase... the pitch becomes noticeable!

MARK'S BRAIN: THE PILOTS ARE FIGHTING TO STAY IN THE AIR. THEY ARE GIVING THE ENGINES ALL THAT THEY HAVE!

Actually they are throttling up to gain altitude to find smother air.

- The air begins to smooth out, the plane settles back into a nice cruise.

MARK'S BRAIN: WE NARROWLY MADE IT. ONCE AGAIN I HAVE CHEATED DEATH.

Actually... everything is, and has been perfectly normal. The pilots go back to checking weather, watching the scenery, and chatting with each other.

The flight attendants go back to the beverage service... and checking on that nervous passenger in 6A.... ME!

Oh Mark, you should get them to make this a sticky on the other boards, it's exactly what I used to go through too!

Seems funny when you write it all out this way though! Not so much when you are going through it though...:eek:

Perhaps we could send it to all the airlines! It would be an eye opener for our pilots! I'll venture a guess that they never even suspect that anyone on the plane is thinking like this, let alone a few of us!

Stats put fearful flyers, (from barely nervous to utterly phobic), at 25-40 percent of the flying public. That's alot of people when you think about it!

[forcedtofly]

What Passenger Mark wrote, sounds exactly like what goes through my mind for the duration of every flight I take. Every sound I hear, every bump we hit, I just know we're all about to die. My imagination always gets the best of me, no matter how much I study the process of flight and the mechanics of airplanes. I'm a flying big baby.

[AnnC]

A BIG thankyou to Mark!!!!!!!!!
I am new here and this is my very first post. I am a terribly fearful flyer...always have been...always manage to convince myself that I am going to be one of those rare unlucky souls who will die in a plane crash. The way I see it is, Ritchie Valens felt that way and he did die in one, so I must be doomed as well:(

Anyways, I fly to Orlando from Ottawa this Tuesday to take my kids to see Mickey Mouse for the first time, and I am not handling the whole idea of the flight very well.
Mark, I wanted to thank you because I read your fantastic (and very hilarious) post above, and it made me laugh...and helped to calm me a bit:) At least for tonight, LOL.

Andrea:)

[Benay]

I know this thread is kind of old, but I just wanted to thank Mark for the perfect depiction of the mistaken "facts" FF's brains (at least THIS FF) feed them during turbulence. It's absolutely spot on and hilarious!! :D

[Aurora]

Sorry if this is an old post - but here goes:

There is a lot of mentioning about airplanes not "balancing" in the air - and that turbulence can't create machs high enough to destroy a plane.

But what about Air France flight 447? The most likely candidate is a really f'ed up storm that just shook the plane to pieces in the air?

Also, when I flew in the cockpit some weeks ago, the pilots told me to visualize the plane as an arrow - balancing on it's wings. Trimming makes the plane more balanced, and turbulence is stronger in the back since an arrow (and a plane) naturally fluctuates more in the back than in the attack point (cockpit / arrowhead).

Therefore one COULD say the plane BOTH is balanced on it's wings - AS WELL AS "floating" in the air through Bernoulli's principle... Right?

[Tryingtobebrave]

Thank you Mark for that commentary, that was hilarious. It's sad but so true. I do that all the time. I printed out your post and Im going to bring it with me on the plane to read so I can reassure myself that other people think this and that it's all in my head:)

[MathFox]

The story of flying through a hole in a line of thunderstorms from the "driver seat": White Caps in the captain's Coffee. (http://flightlevel390.blogspot.com/2010/01/white-caps-in-captains-coffee.html) Moderate turbulence means that the passengers get a good shake, but it is safe when everyone stays buckled in.

Note: for a pilot turbulence is "business as usual", maybe not every flight, but at least several times a month.