My last posting day before vacation

[PositiveE]

Well folks, tomorrow's the day. It's my last day at work and we're taking off for Maui (via Phoenix for 3 nights) tomorrow. I'll only be on the board here for a few more hours.

I'm feeling pretty good today. I think I'm in the acceptance phase. I was just looking at the reviews on TripAdvisor.com for the place we're staying. Sorry to make anyone jealous but we're staying at the Four Seasons! So I was looking at pictures and feeling excited about the trip. A big step for me!

It looks beautiful.... but why does it have to be so darned far away from Boston?!

I'm letting go... bring it on panic and anxiety. Try your best, but I'm GETTING on that plane!!!

p.s. between now and April 11th if you read a headline about a woman freaking out on a plane over the Pacific, it's me! :-) Think of me fondly.... I'll be a celebrity!!!

[Lynda]

Good attitude!!!!!!!!!!


Have a wonderful time, wish I was there!:)

[Passenger Mark]

Have a great trip. You will do fine!

Why is that beautiful beach resort so far from Boston?

Because Boston ain't in Hawaii!

WHEN YOU GET TO AZ AND HAWAII PLEASE CHECK IN. We have been with you thoughout your preparation and look forward to those "I'm Here" posts!

Have fun! :thumbsup:
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[PositiveE]

Thanks Lynda and Mark. I will do my best to check in with you all.

Thanks to everyone for all your support.

The baby bird is leaving the nest..... but this baby bird will be back!

[Barb-SAN]

Positive E,

I just wanted to wish you a great trip. Hawaii is beautiful, and WARM....and lovely. Will you swim, surf, snorkle, hike, learn to hula??? Eat poi with your fingers?

Although I haven't had time to post for a few weeks, I do read the boards from time to time, and have been following the discussions. You have made many thoughtful and insightful observations. I think you will do just fine...and hope you won't strive for "perfection", but just enjoy the ride. And please, no more worries about "freaking out in flight"!!!!

I just got back from a trip to Michigan myself. I was fine until the morning of the flight. Had a few hours of AA, queasy stomach and the works...but I went to the airport anyway, and got in a nice conversation with the flight attendants while waiting to board the flight. That really calmed me down a lot, as did meeting the pilot before we took off. He gave me the "weather briefing", and I gave him a copy of the TF letter in case he knew anyone else with FF. He said he'd keep it in his flight bag.

It always helps me to get into a conversation with someone on the flight, since I usually travel alone. It's better to think about someone else, and have a lively conversation, and take your mind off of your bodily symptoms. I think I'm probably going to always have some of those symptoms, so accepting them and then trying to distract myself seems to work best for me.

Again...good luck, and have FUN! Life is short...and we work too many hours as it is!!
:cool:
Barb-SAN

[PositiveE]

I think I'm probably going to always have some of those symptoms, so accepting them and then trying to distract myself seems to work best for me.



Ain't it the truth..... I definitely agree with you on the distracting thing. I'll be bringing some bright, colorful magazines. My fiance is going to be with me, which helps (I think :) ). The is the biggest trip I have ever taken. The furthest away from home I've ever been so it's been a bit intimidating.

In terms of life being short..... I'm hesistant to tell this story, but I talked to one of my friends from college today. She just got back from Hawaii. She was in the middle of the whole dam breaking, flooding thing on Kawai. When I say in the middle of it I really mean in the middle of it. She, her husband and two children were renting a bungalow and homes around them were swept away. Only their bungalow and the house of the caretaker made it and 7 people around her died. I heard about it on the news with no idea that she was one of the people experiencing the whole thing. She knows that she and her family narrowly escaped death. The whole thing is surreal.

She wasn't sure if she should tell me because she knows of my issues, but I told her that it makes me realize/remember how precious life is and how I must stay focused on getting out and LIVING my life.

[Rebecca]

Hey, PosE … I’ll just say again that your determination and courage are so buff now that you are bound to see some real action from them on this trip.

That paradox link on the other thread really, really appeals to me for the sheer logic of it and how it plays on our basic nature. It never failed .. each time my husband would say to his (ahem) “energetic & emotive” daughter, “Okay, you have five minutes to yell all you want,” an extended fit of complete silence ensued.

Please have some shave ice in Hawaii for me. It’s the one thing on my list I didn’t do.

Aloha!!!:sunshine:

Rebecca

[StPeteMark]

Four Seasons, huh? :thinking: You should have told us that in the BEGINNING!!! We have Holiday Inn limit on this Board, so you'll have to give back all that free advice! :lol:

Well, have a great trip to HAWAII - relax and enjoy the wonderful experience of flight!!!
.

[Stef]

Have a fantastic time! There is no place on earth like Maui. You will LOVE it. I'm so jealous!

Stef
:sunshine:

[pknnewson]

I hope that you have great trip out to Maui. Enjoy the sunshine and good weather.

Suzanne

[CaptainStark]

Pos E. is now in Hawaii.

And she got there by flying, something that was extremely difficult for her to do. But, she made it. And, she will make it back, I am sure.

PosE has been very open in communicating her frustration in dealing with this fear of "freaking out" while inflight. It is not that she actually would freak out, but rather the simple fear that she might lose control, which she clearly stated would not happen. In other words, a fear of a fear. Or in her specific case, a fear of nothing.

As I have stated on my general topics thread (http://www.takingflight.us/forums/showthread.php?t=12&page=2), I have dealt with OCD issues all my life. While we do not specifically diagnose people on this site because doing so outside of a clinical situation is impossible, in my few years of dealing with FoF, I am convinced the majority of people who suffer from the most debilitating manifestations of this issue share many of the traits of people diagnosed with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. Why do I believe this? Because their minds cannot get off this closed cause-and-effect loop that only gets worse over time. They allow their mind to go to this place and ponder over-and-over what might happen, irrespective of what actually does or would happen. If you share some of these traits, go read the thread I have posted on this issue and see if some of these traits don't sound familiar. If you want an objective opinion, let another person read that post and see if they find those traits in you. It is very common across the population and finding out you are not alone, not "crazy", and not in an untreatable situation should give you a tremendous foundation upon which to start your recovery.

I have specifically held my posts to PosE because my introduction of some "reality" in an earlier post seemed to really upset her. I did that on purpose because I wanted her to publicly declare that her fear was simply of the "fear of losing control," not the actual "fear" that she would lose control. Her initial response to "reality" was tough for her as well as everyone who tried to support her on this forum. But I believe "tough love" worked once again. By the end of her last thread, she had explored "taunting the Monster" in an effort to try to control the fear mechanism inside her brain that conrolled her. By forcing the fear onset, she was seeking to be able to control how and when the fear struck, and by doing so, vastly reduce the magnitude of the episode. That is an approach we support here at Taking Flight support. We are about putting you in control.

No recovery can ever have a lasting effect that does not base it's foundation in truth and reality. PosE initially used a mindgame of, "Well, if I were to freak out, I would just land and have them let me off." I personally (purely my opinion) think that that is completely counter to the idea she explored of "through this attitude you accept your symptoms, and you permit them to exist." Accepting anything without first accepting reality is building a house of cards because reality will inevitably intrude on you, especially when you are emotionally vulnerable such as the weeks leading up to a flight. Throughout the suggestions offered by the membership of this site, PosE seemed to be understanding but in many cases openly declared that these approaches would not work for her. In fact, I think they have worked.

It is convenient to say that "my problem is different" or "I am not made that way and that approach does not work for me" but that suggests you are unique when I believe just the contrary: We are all different people but we suffer from the same type issues in varying degrees. The out-of-hand dismissal of a technique or helpful suggestion is a guarantee for failure because every suggestion can eventually be dismissed or classified as "not for me" and that leaves you back at square one. For those with OCD, that can lead to devastating paralysis because the longer you are left to your own mind's devices, the deeper you are locked into the cycle of destructive and demoralizing repetitive thought. Breaking that cycle is paramount and the sooner the better.

I do not mean to judge or upset PosE in highlighting her case on this forum. Being illuminated for everyone to see is one of the aspects of a public forum on the Internet. I hope everyone who has followed her story takes away her openness to convey her thoughts and concerns about her fear issues. It takes a brave person to do that publicly. What I hope everyone notices is how she made a steadfast commitment to go on this trip despite her fears. If she went to Hawaii every week for the next year she would be doing so with far less anxiety and worry but the root problem would still be there because there is no cure for most of the people who suffer from this malady. Instead, most frequent fliers simply realize the fear trigger is there, they learn how to minimize the effects or duration of the "attack", and they press on anyway knowing the issue is "in their head" rather than being something that will actually cause harm to them. In a grand understatement on my part, they learn to basically "ignore" what their brain is telling them.

There is hope in PosE's lesson. Determination leads to results. But results can be reached with more efficiency if you focus on the root of your problem first. I highly encourage all members of this site to explore more on the subject of OCD and it's debilitating and literally devastating effects if allowed to run unchecked through our lives. For there, I personally believe, is the root of problem for the vast majority of people suffering fear of flying issues.

:ray:

[Barb-SAN]

Ray,

Thanks for that very insightful post. You have given us much to think about. I found your post in your FAQ section, detailing your personal experiences with claustrophobia in the underwater cave in Hawaii, quite fascinating. Understanding how one's mind works, and trying to outfox it when necessary, is truly a life-long challenge!

Personally...I don't have the repetitive compulsions...but do tend to "obsess" about things sometimes...like my mind gets "stuck in a groove". That can be a useful trait when one needs to concentrate on a project at work, however! Same with the overactive imagination...if we can just harness it into some lucrative creative endeavors...like art or writing....
;)
Barb-SAN

[CaptainStark]

Perfect example Barb,

Personally...I don't have the repetitive compulsions...but do tend to "obsess" about things sometimes...

I believe the repetitive obsessive thoughts are a slightly minor manifestation of the same thing. Those incessant "thought loops" may be resolved using some to the same behavior modification techniques that has shown effective with OCD individuals. Break the chain or repetitive worry early before it gets to the point where that one thought is almost all you have running in your brain. In a situation where the mind triggers anxiety, stopping this "fear induced, adrenaline powered, feedback loop" is even more critical. This, combined with a "reality based" approach to those thoughts that trigger anxiety has proven helpful in my family's case.

You are right, we all have to find our own approach, I just hope rather than avoiding more direct approaches, people look at the basics before searching a panoply of solutions believing that their problem is somehow unique in this universe.

:ray:

[LeslieDEN]

No recovery can ever have a lasting effect that does not base it's foundation in truth and reality. PosE initially used a mindgame of, "Well, if I were to freak out, I would just land and have them let me off." I personally (purely my opinion) think that that is completely counter to the idea she explored of "through this attitude you accept your symptoms, and you permit them to exist." Accepting anything without first accepting reality is building a house of cards because reality will inevitably intrude on you, especially when you are emotionally vulnerable such as the weeks leading up to a flight.

This is interesting to me. I had thought that lots of folks, including Capt. Ray, had misunderstood PosE's post, and had missed the fact that she acknowledged in her first post that she knew she was playing a mindgame with herself when flying over land and just wanted to know how she might duplicate the mindgame when flying over water. When she got some follow-up posts that seemed pretty brutal, I felt bad for her -- jeez, y'all, she's just asking for a replacement fantasy, she knows it's all fantasy anyway. What's wrong with that?

It didn't occur to me that there was something else going on: Intentional self-delusion is a house of cards no matter how we look at it and we need better flying tools than that. Good point.

[aerobat]

Excellent discussion here, with some really profound issues. Thanks to you all for the wisdom and careful attention that have gone into it.

I would venture that if one takes seriously Sean's and Monica's model of continually challenging oneself in deliberate ways, that the result can be close enough to a "cure for FoF" to be genuinely termed a cure. Uncertainty and a little trepidation will no doubt accompany each of these ever-so-slightly bolder steps, and that's as it should be. But one really can reach a point where no further challenges are needed: we fly comfortably, or as comfortably as those normal nonphobics do. We are not(and they are not) flatliners; we can still get a zap now and then. Ditto for the freeway. If we are not satisfied with our comfort level, then maybe it's time to put the Sherlock hat on and go sleuthing for safety maneuvers.

Magical thinking of any sort is a double-edged sword. I went through a phase (after giving up my most egregious magical thinking such as "any plane I get on is doomed") of feeling I needed to give the plane a pat as I boarded. I also discovered during this phase that I was vulnerable to zaps from certain "unlucky" flight numbers (232 was one; UAL retired it but SWA did not, of course). I found that these little "safety maneuvers" went hand in hand with a certain lingering vulnerability, and that when I could shrug off "unlucky numbers" and deliberately not give the plane a pat, I made immediate gains in reality-based confidence. Eventually that confidence can and should replace any need to pack a bag full of distractions or meet the pilots as we board. Or (especially) stare at the flight attendants for any hint of trouble. As long as we continue to define ourselves as fearful fliers (in whatever stage), our brains will buy into it. Early on, we need all the tricks and strategies (including those lucky chartreuse socks) we can get, but there comes a time when we truly graduate. That doesn't mean we get normal (horrors :eek: ). There will always be, in my view, an essential difference between people who have faced a daunting fear and found the courage to put it behind them and people who have never had to do this. Perhaps it is comparable to the difference between soldiers who have seen combat and those who have not.

It's been said many times (most recently by Ray about PosE) that flying often is a key part of solid, stable recovery. I have long advocated practice flights. How many flights? As many as we need until we start running out of challenges for ourselves! There's nothing like repetition to make something routine. In my case, I don't get to fly on airliners very often these days, but as a flight instructor, I'm up in the little birds a dozen and more times a week, and I am around the big ones on a daily basis. So the world of air travel has become routine for me, and that is very stabilizing.

Monica has also pointed out that work is a critical part of the process. Amen. There is something quite remarkable about committing to a course of action (with whatever knowledge and guidance we can find) and staying the course, keeping a journal, reflecting on progress, setting goals, taking bigger steps, and congratulating ourselves for successes great and small. There are many recipes for the work; the most important thing is the commitment to it. This work flies in the face of the greatest weapon the phobia has: it takes control of our emotions. By doing the work, we take back control in such a way that we will never give it up again.

Barb

[StPeteMark]

...I have long advocated practice ...There's nothing like repetition to make something routine. ... and that is very stabilizing.

...There is something quite remarkable about committing to a course of action (with whatever knowledge and guidance we can find) and staying the course, keeping a journal, reflecting on progress, setting goals, taking bigger steps, and congratulating ourselves for successes great and small. There are many recipes for the work; the most important thing is the commitment to it. This work flies in the face of the greatest weapon the phobia has: it takes control of our emotions. By doing the work, we take back control in such a way that we will never give it up again. Barb The most effective "work" includes turning off the computer, or closing a book, and physically and/or mentally practicing what you have read or learned, over and over and over and over ........

Take charge! It's a beautiful world from up there! :)
.

[beeinatree]

gosh, i timed out again!

congrats positivee! :)

[beeinatree]

thank you for the post, captain ray.

i can relate to the thought loops.

i kind of relate to PTSD maybe? because my fear developed after 911. also after my favorite very young aunt died in front of me of cancer at about the same time.

so then it snowballed to questions on how it flies. i just got so terrified up in the air the first time after 911. i didnt understand how it stays up there. so strange, i never considered it before in all the times i flew, even as an adult cross-country!

im reading your book and im half way through. i hope i fall into the first category? i sure hope so.

i had two people tell me when I first developed my fear (my cousin and a friend) that I shouldn't be scared because of aerodynamics. i was laughing my head off, because i though they were so silly. but now i see they were right! im the silly one. it is aerodynamics, hehe.

:sunshine:

[PositiveLY]

Hi guys, it's me PositiveE. Sorry about the new screen name. I'll be going back to PositiveE when I get home.

I can't make this long as we're heading down to breakfast soon.

I did AWESOME on my flights out. I'm telling you.... for me I REALLY think the hypnosis cd's work great.

I can't say I'm cured, but I am definitely a recovering FoFer. Want to hear something interesting? I saw the post that said "Advice for someone stuck in Japan" and I felt like "oh no, definitely NOT going to read that one." Capt. Ray is absolutely right about the connection to OCD.

The good news is that I am HERE. I got on that plane and did it. I'll have memories that will last me a lifetime because I got on that plane. You just got to take it one flight at a time.

I'll post again soon. Thanks again everyone for all your support.

p.s. Maui rocks!

[WillFlyToDisney]

Hey PosE/LY!

So glad you made it! How was Hawaii???

Kelley

[StPeteMark]

Hi guys, it's me PositiveE....I did AWESOME on my flights out. I'm telling you.... for me I REALLY think the hypnosis cd's work great....The good news is that I am HERE. I got on that plane and did it. I'll have memories that will last me a lifetime because I got on that plane. You just got to take it one flight at a time....p.s. Maui rocks!
GLAD to hear the great news!!! Yes, you "got on that plane and did it." Keep that memory and build upon it, for there will be a day, like today is for me, you will have little, if any, AA for a flight! :thumbsup:

Mark :)
.

[CaptainStark]

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

You did it yourself! You got there. You'll get home fine.

Great job.


:ray:

[Barb-SAN]

PosE,

That's so great that you had a good flight. Thanks for taking the time to post and let us all know how it went. Hope you can relax and enjoy your vacation, and have a smooth flight home.

:hyped: :jump::pompoms::yippee::airplane:

Barb-SAN

[PositiveLY]

Throughout the suggestions offered by the membership of this site, PosE seemed to be understanding but in many cases openly declared that these approaches would not work for her. In fact, I think they have worked.

It is convenient to say that "my problem is different" or "I am not made that way and that approach does not work for me" but that suggests you are unique when I believe just the contrary

I guess I should probably go back and look at my old posts before responding to this, but I just want to convey to you all that I NEVER thought or felt that my problem was different than anyone elses. At times, I did feel somewhat ostracized by people on here (a small minority) because they deemed me as different. If anything I have always felt that the approaches that work for people that have a fear of crashing would work the same for me. I guess I'm not as good a communicator as I fancy myself to be! It's probably a moot point now, but I still feel that hearing what would happen to me if I freaked out on plane did absolutely nothing for my recovery. I'm not unique or different, I just have an illogical fear like everyone else on here. The only thing that could possibly be viewed as different is that I don't have a fear of crashing.

Thanks again for your support.