Mechanical Question flying with 1 engine out.

[Passenger Mark]

Royd,

I received a Private Message from a member wanting to know the MECHANICS involved in flying an aircraft such as the BA 747 with one engine out.

What is the process? How much training is involved? etc.

Due to the history of the BA 747 Thread, they were timid about posting there.

So I have closed that thread, and opened this new one to discuss the MECHANICS and PROCESS of flying an commercial aircraft with an engine out.

Thanks,

Mark

NOTE: Of course any member is welcomed to chime in also. HOWEVER any post that spins this thread from the original intent will be deleted.

[Falcon]

One the 737 we were given engine failures every day in the simulator for our initial training and we got very fed up of constantly doing the checklist very quickly. Every six months we go for recurrent training in the simulator and do single engine work to keep us sharp.

The failure happens in stages. First we realise what is happening, control the aircraft and call for a confirmation of the failure. The non flying pilot will call out what he sees on the instruments. Lets use an example:

On climb out there is a massive bang and a ringing sounds. The pilot will call "cancel Master caution and Fire bell. Confirm the failure."
Co pilot "Number 2 EGT very high, Number 2 fire warning switch lit."
Pilot "I think we have a Number 2 engine fire." (note the number 2 is on the right of the aircraft as you sit in it)
CP "I agree"
P "OK Engine Fire, Severe damage or separation checklist recall items:
Auto-throttle disconnect, disconnect.
Number 2 thrust lever, Confirm?"
CP "Confirm" (makes sure we don't close the wrong one.)
and so it would continue. We would operate the on board extinguishers, secure the engine and perform the one engine inoperative checklist to get ready for approach and landing. Only having two engines we have to land.

Now the science bit. Yes you are right, one side is dead and the other side is going full chat which is going to push our nose to the right. We correct this using rudder which does increase drag. Flying is not difficult but requires a little more thought and a gentler touch on the controls especially in turns. Speed control using thrust needs a good eye on the gauge because if you have to correct you will use more thrust on the one engine to speed up, which will change the difference and require more rudder. We trim the rudder into a position that saves our leg muscles but if the power is changed we will have to move the rudder to compensate. After landing with brakes and judicious use of reverse thrust the fire service will meet us. This is a precaution in case of further problems.Most ATC are itching to give the fire guys an exercise as it is all good practice and they spend all day playing cards anyway so even if you land in a hurry because the First officer has become suddenly sick they may attend. In the UK nearly all airport firemen are trained paramedics so can give vital first aid.

Now to the four engined aircraft. On one side two horses are running on the other only one. Logic tells us the same forces are at work but you have one engine on the bad side to help you so it wont be as hard. Of course three engines cant do the work of four hence the lower level.

Hope this helps any further clarification, please ask.

[EditorASC]

An additional training requirement, is included in the annual (or semi-annual) proficiency training of airline pilots (mentioned above):

The requirement to file takeoff alternate airports, as part of the flight plan.

Theoretically, the dispatcher should have takeoff alternates attached to the flight plan he proposes to the Captain, if such are required. However, both dispatcher and Captain are responsible for ensuring such takeoff alternate airports are filed as part of the flight plan, if the circumstances on that flight require it.

The takeoff alternate airport requirement comes into play whenever the weather, or other airport conditions, at the original takeoff airport would preclude the plane coming back for a landing there, following an engine failure.

The usual reason why that comes into play, is if the visibility at the airport is less than the current landing minimums. Yes, planes can and do takeoff with less visibility than is required for landing, provided all the necessary runway lighting is in operating condition.

When pilots go in for that regular proficiency training, they are usually handed the information to make out a flight plan and part of that test (to see if they do that correctly) is to see if they will recognize when it is required to file takeoff alternate airports, as part of the flight plan. And, since the landing minimums at takeoff alternate airports, are higher than when the same airport is the destination airport, they must also be cognizant of which airports qualify, under the forecast weather circumstances, and when they do not.

If the current weather at the original takeoff airport is such that they could not return to THAT airport for landing, following an engine failure after takeoff, then they must have filed a takeoff alternate airport, which does have a forecast for weather above the minimums for landing, as a takeoff alternate:

----Within one hours flight time, if it is a two-engine airplane.

----Within two hours flight time, if it is a three-engine or four-engine airplane.

Pilots are held responsible for knowing all kinds of required information, so that they will be able to conduct each flight with the maximum possible safety margin, and that is why they must know when the takeoff alternate filing is required, even though they usually rely upon the dispatcher to supply that information.

That is why they are not allowed to takeoff at all, in below landing weather conditions at the airport of origin, if they know there is no other suitable airport within one or two hours flight time, should they suffer an engine failure after takeoff.

Capt. Bob

:type:

[CaptainStark]

Royd,

I must be doing something wrong!:thumbsup:

Good post. For those with my book, I detail what goes through a pilots mind in the seconds after an engine failure during takeoff. There's a lot going on in the grey matter for the first couple of minutes.

Ray

[WillFlyToDisney]

Yep Ray,

Deb is right. It is something like this:

:mg: :mg:

followed by this:

:shocked: :shocked:

then a little of this:

:cry: :cry:

then maybe even some of this:

:pray: :pray:

or this:

:barf:

then when we do land the passengers rush out and kiss the ground like this:

:thud: :thud:

but the whole time the 2 pilots kept their cool in the cockpit:

:ray: :ray:

[Falcon]

Thank you Ray, compliments from the Master. The thing I always forget in the Sim is the PA after to reassure the passengers. You get so busy doing your job it is very easy to miss the 150 people behind you.

[StPeteMark]

Yep Ray,

Deb is right. It is something like this: ... but the whole time the 2 pilots kept their cool in the cockpit: :ray: :ray:

... and we are very thankful for their dedication and skill!!!
:hail: :hail: :hail:

[EditorASC]

http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-3-8/26878.html

High Hopes for Pilot Willie Walsh as New BA CEO

By Michael Smith
Reuters
Mar 08, 2005


http://english.epochtimes.com/images/spacer.gif http://english.epochtimes.com/images/spacer.gif http://english.epochtimes.com/images/spacer.gif LONDON - Willie Walsh, a former pilot who jettisoned the art collection of Ireland's national airline to help save it, will be targeting more excess baggage when he takes the helm at British Airways.At only 43, the straight-talking Irishman was fast-tracked into one of world's top aviation jobs on Tuesday when he was named as the new boss of Europe's second-largest airline.

Until January, Walsh was chief executive at state-run Aer Lingus where he slashed jobs and helped reposition the firm as a low-cost carrier following its brush with bankruptcy in 2001.

"He was responsible for the turnaround of Aer Lingus and quite a lot of that was actually stream-lining and cost cutting the organisation. Someone with that experience is going to fit in (at BA), because there's a lot more to do," said Exane BNP Paribas analyst Nick Van den Brul.

Walsh, who joined Aer Lingus as a cadet pilot at 17, once famously said he would sell the paintings off the wall to salvage the company. He was as good as his word.

A month after his appointment to the top job in 2001, the airline raised $503,000 by selling off the cream of its corporate art collection.

British Airways shareholders will be expecting similar things from Walsh when he takes over from Rod Eddington, an outspoken Australian who is also credited with steering his company through turbulent times.

Analysts say Eddington, who axed 13,000 jobs at BA, will be a hard act to follow but are impressed by Walsh's track record despite his relative youth.

Teenage Pilot

Walsh was a teenage pilot in 1979 who worked his way through the ranks at Aer Lingus to captain by 1990.

He was appointed chief of Aer Lingus' charter airline in Spain, Futura, in 1998, and returned to Dublin as Aer Lingus Chief Operating Officer in 2000.

Walsh became Aer Lingus Chief Executive a month after the September 2001 attacks on the United States which resulted in a global downturn in travel and sent many airlines bankrupt.

He reacted with a radical programme that cut 30 percent of the airline's costs and laid off one-third of its 4,000-strong workforce. The airline survived.

He and two senior executives resigned late last year after differences with the Irish government about the airline's future direction. Walsh was said to be frustrated about finding new sources of funding to invest in a long-haul fleet.

Originally scheduled to leave Aer Lingus in May, Walsh and his management team finished work at the end of January, but denied they were hurried out by reports they were planning to set up a rival carrier.

Rival Carrier

Walsh, who received a flood of different proposals from several continents after his resignation, may even have been surprised to get a position as senior as Eddington's.

When asked about his interest in the BA job last month, Walsh modestly said he'd have to take such an offer seriously if it came along.

Walsh will be the second Irishman to head a major European airline alongside the feisty chief of Dublin-based low-cost giant Ryanair, Michael O'Leary.

Described as frank and less of a showman than O'Leary, Walsh's knowledge of Ryanair may also be invaluable to BA which has had to cut fares due to competition from low-cost airlines.

Analysts say Walsh wisely steered Aer Lingus away from head to head competition with Ryanair during his tenure.

"I think for BA to get somebody like Walsh, who has been having to deal with the likes of Ryanair as a state carrier, is positive," said Joe Gill, analyst at Goodbody Stockbrokers in Dublin.

Walsh's big test will be how he deals with unions at BA which may face more job cuts as it continues to battle high fuel costs and lower ticket prices.

"He was helped by the fact that post 9/11 the world was in disarray so he was able to push forwards quite strong changes (in Aer Lingus). That might be more difficult in a stable environment," Gill said.

Tackling trans-Atlantic travel, BA's most important market, will also be a crucial role ahead of an expected liberalisation of travel between Europe and the United States.

Walsh, married with a daughter of nine, will take the reins in September when Eddington retires to his native Australia.

Additional reporting by Jodie Ginsberg in Dublin and Mark Potter in London

==========================





:type:

[mkahanek]

That shows Mr. Kahanek requiring a new pair of fruit of the looms should that happen on one of my flights?