Airtran and Boeing 717

[cassidywithwings]

Hi all. Well after surviving my very first flight in 3 years to and from Orlando, I am flying again this Friday on Airtran (on a 717). I have never heard of the 717. If anyone has flown this type of plane or on Airtran, please, send some info my way! I will be forever grateful. :hail (I love these emoticons) :)

[Passenger Mark]

Hey Cassidy!

I copied this over to Captain Ray's forum, so check for answers there as well!

Mark ;)

[sengelin]

The 717 is the next-generation version of the DC-9/MD-80/MD-90. It is a two-engine jet that seats 100 people. Airtan was the first airline to buy it. It has some very nice features, including larger, more ergonomic seats, much quieter engines than its predecessors, and more fresh air in the cabin. It's a very nice, very comfortable airplane. You'll have a great trip.

[Passenger Mark]

I was curious also, so I looked up a few photos...

http://www.airliners.net/photos/small/6/2/5/526526.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/photos/small/3/2/1/519123.jpg

[cassidywithwings]

Mark, Thanks for copying this over to Ray, and for the great photos! I notice the engines are in the back, note to self, ask for seats in the front! ;)

sengelin, thanks for the scoop. I like the sound of next generation. Sounds new! Always a good thing when you are afraid to fly. I've been on an MD80 before (many years ago). Boeing must have brought it (or the later version) into their fold when they merged with McDonnell Douglas.

Thanks for the info both of you!

[Huey]

Airtran also offers upgrades for like $35 or so.

I wouldn't hesitate to fly Airtran.

[cassidywithwings]

I have never flown with them before. I was starting to stress about the whole Valuejet thing, but then I realized that a) it was 8 years ago and b) its a different company now! Seems like they wouldn't be in business today if they didn't do things well! (I will have to make that my mantra for this flight)

An upgrade sounds good, I may just have to give that a try. Thanks for the scoop Huey! :)

[WillFlyToDisney2]

This was a post on "another" board a few months back by our own "Chatpilot". I'm sure he wouldn't mind me copying and pasting it here.

"I used to work for AirTran as a DC9 F/O in 1998 shortly after the Valujet merger.

The skinny of it was this:

Two airlines.

Valujet, which had a lot of $$$ in the bank, but who passengers were afraid to fly.

AirTran, which was nearly bankrupt, but had a good reputation, a strong Orlando route structure, and a name which passengers could not associate with tragedy.

Valujet purchased AirTran -- took over their name -- and began to rebuild the airline.

In 1998 when I was there the airline was still, in my opinion, unsafe. They were using aircraft with substandard avionics and navigation equipment, and were trained in a simulator whose technology was so old that pilots actually had to go out in the middle of the night and fly the AIRPLANE a few hours before being released to fly passengers in revenue service.

Today they are a different company. They are an extremely aggressive, lean, company with state of the art aircraft and training provided by Flightsafety International.

They ARE, in fact, a union company. The pilots are represented by the National Pilots Association (NPA). There are still quite a few Eastern scabs flying there, but most are nearing retirement age.

I would not hesitate to fly on AirTran and, to be quite honest, I'm dissapointed that I left there in 1998 to go to work for US Airways (where I was furloughed last year). Had I stayed I would be a 717 Captain."

[cassidywithwings]

Wow, I feel much better after reading that. Thank you for finding that post and copying it here!! :)

[EditorASC]

"I was starting to stress about the whole Valujet thing, but then I realized that a) it was 8 years ago and b) its a different company now! Seems like they wouldn't be in business today if they didn't do things well!"

[cassidywithwings]

========================

What is so often left out about the Valujet crash:

----The danger of shipping oxygen generators in the cargo compartment of an airliner was well-known by the FAA, long before that crash. An entire DC-10 was burned up at the gate (no injuries---the plane was empty) when just one of those ignited in a seat that was being transported for repair, in the cargo compt. But, the FAA, true to its usual form, failed to not only prohibit such further shipments, but they also failed to distribute the information about that danger to all the airlines.

----The shipment of improperly safetied oxygen generators, was put on the ValuJet airplane without the knowledge or consent of Valujet management. There have been many cases, over the years, where air cargo shippers have placed improperly package hazardous materials on Airliners, without the knowledge or consent of the airlines involved. At least two cargo airliners have been destroyed, as a result, and others had to make emergency landings. I know of no instance were the airline itself was blamed, when they didn't know about the illegal shipment, except for the Valujet crash. In that case, Valujet had been the target of hostile unions, aided and abetted by a willing press, because so many of the "scab" pilots from Eastern were now flying for Valujet. Indeed, the female captain on the accident plane, was a former Easter pilot who did not buy the union propaganda which eventually destroyed Eastern Airlines.

----After that Valujet crash, there were more instances of improper shipment of hazardous materials in the cargo compartments of Legacy Airlines. In some cases, the airline knew it was improper and they were fined by the FAA. How much press did that receive? Nothing like the bad press that Valujet received, after the crash caused by the improper shipment of hazardous material which was done without the knowledge or consent of that airline.

It isn't hard for me to understand why valujet had to change its name. Both the Media and the labor unions did the same PR image assassination to EAL, during the Eastern strike in the late 80s.

The unions even got 20/20 to air a program that claimed Eastern knowingly flew an airliner that had a damaged engine, because a ground air-condition hose contacted the fan blades. They claimed the engine failed in flight because Eastern management refused to repair it. And, they then put out the lie that a fuselage fractured on a stretched DC-9, when it landed at Pensacola in 1987, because Eastern did not do the proper maintenance. Of course, they left out the parts about that engine failing in the TURBINE section, several months after the compressor section contacted the hose, and that the nics in the compressor blades were dressed out according to specs, prior to flight after the hose contact. They also left out the part about the DC-9 fuselage breaking from overload stress as the result of a very hard landing. It had nothing whatsoever to do with poor maintenance. It was a pilot error (union pilot) accident.

Both charges were **** lies, but that didn't bother the leftist news types at ABC 20/20. All they cared about is that the unions were making those charges. Either 20/20 was too dumb to realize they were being used, or they were in cahoots with those unions to spread those lies about Eastern.

Once the left-wing media bores in on someone, changing your name may be the best defense. Remember what they did to Dan Quail when he misspelled one word?


My point, in all this, is that it usually is a great error to judge the safety of airlines in general, and airlines with specific names, when those reporting the news have leftist agendas driving those reports. In those kinds of cases, they are not just reporting news facts; rather, they are disguising their editorial opinions as if it were just news.

I get letters all the time, from militant unionsists, who deliberately try to distort the real safety pictures, for political reasons. One such letter (and my response) can be found at:

www.airlinesafety.com/letters/union2.htm (http://www.airlinesafety.com/letters/union2.htm)

The entire purpose for my website is to set the record straight about airline safety. There are hordes and hordes of political ax-grinders out there (Ralph Nader and John Nance are classic examples) who deliberately distort the historical truth about airlines accidents, so that they can try to persuade our citizens to urge Congress to take the kinds of actions which will benefit their own special interest groups, at the expense of the rest of us.

Unfortunately, most of the major media are very much willing to aid and abet those political distortions of history.