Hello, my name is Marco and I am scared of flying

[MarcoAviator]

Hello, my name is Marco and I am scared to fly...

I wasn't always scared of flying. My fear increased over the years for no reason at all (none that I can see at least).

At some point in my life I was travelling internationally and I was perfectly fine. I would eat like a pig on the planes, I would sleep. The usual.

At some point I would fly EVERY week to Cincinnati (I live in NJ, NY area) to see my then girlfriend (which is now my wife).

I would fly in mouldy, smelly puddle jumpers.

Nothing.

Then at some point my fear started and it increased gradually and sneakily. It started as "concern" at first ... and it got worse. A lot worse.

It got to the point that I couldn't sleep on the plane and couldn't really eat right.

Then I had one flight ... that clinched it.

A flight that made me a very nervous flyer ... In fact you could easily call me a "terrified" flyer. "Nervous" just doesn't cut it.

In 2002 my wife and me were on our way back from a vacation in Italy aboard a Boeing 767. Just after 40 minutes in the air the plane hit some nasty turbulence. The plane in question (the Boeing 767) is quite a big beast. You would think that a plane this big would just cut through the turbulence and except for a little bit of shaking you wouldn't feel a thing. I normally get very nervous when the plane shakes because of turbuence. But this time, on that trip back from Italy, things got a lot worse ... a little more exciting than I care to remember.

People were walking around the aisles of the plane as usual (normally, 40 minutes into the flight, the attendants are roaming around starting to provide some quick snacks and passengers are starting to line up for the bathroom). Then all of a sudden the plane rolled violently to the right. When I say violently, I mean that one second we were flying level and the next second we were rolled a good 20-25 degrees to the right. Everyone that was standing fell on the floor or on the lap of seated passengers. People screamed, loudly, in surprise. Funnily enough, the most outraged screams came from the bathroom... I didn't find that funny at all back then. I was more concerned about deciding who was going to explode first, my heart out of my throat or the plane.

For the next 10 minutes that 767 was subjected to the most savage slapping I had ever witnessed. Other more experienced pilots and passengers (including people with military background) told me that they would consider that kind of experience a semi-boring kiddie roller-coaster ride. I, on the other hand, was out of my mind with terror.

I could see adult men crying. I could see women screaming and clutching their kids. The scariest part was that some loose debris from the kitchen was getting shaken through the seats and aisles of the plane, thus giving a strong impression that the plane was actually falling apart around us. I felt like yelling at the pilot "Take this **** thing back on the ground right the HELL NOW!!!".

After a few minutes the pilot (probably knowing better) did exactly the opposite: he went full throttle and pitched gently but firmly up. As of now, with a clear and rational mind I can understand what the pilot was doing: gaining more speed and altitude to take us out and above the turbulence.

The shaking subsided for a little while (half an hour) and then the trubolence was back with utter terrifying violence for another 15-20 minutes. My level of terror did not improve at all. In fact, just writing this paragraph I can re-live that sensation of helplessness, that suffocating, claustrophobic feeling of being trapped in a metal tube, 33000 feet above the ground, being slapped around, knowing that between me and 33000 feet of free fall there were only a cheap coach seat, a bunch of metal panels and a few thousand pounds of jet fuel, knowing that an apparently big and solid jet plane was in fact a tiny little insignificant speck of metal with 300+ souls on board, in a hostile sky.

Useless to say, my trip was shot. I lived through the rest of those 9 hours, alternatively clutching the seat and walking nervously around, trying to keep the stuff in my stomach from coming out of the wrong hole.

My wife on the other hand was totally unfazed. Her fear factor I believe is totally non-existent. A tiny spider that would not be dangerous to a mosquito freaks her out but she is totally, utterly oblivious to plane fear. She was sitting there, besides me, trying to distract me, console me and calm me down. She did succeed (in part) to the point that even in some of the bad moments I was just scared, as opposed to being terrified beyond rational recovery (the idea of me running around the plane blubbering non-sensical idiocies and happily wetting my pants didn't seem such an unlikely scenario back then... considering the behavior of some of the other passengers, I would have been in good and numerous company).

I praise my wife for her stoicism, for her strength and for her spirit. And most of all I praise her for somehow managing to keep me from dieing of a heart attack, right there and then.

Most importantly she helped me keep my dignity.

I am generally a guy that can keep the cool. I hate the fact that on that flight I almost totally lost it.

Since then ... I have been white-hot terrified of flying.

I still fly because I live in the US and my family is back in the "Ole' Country" (Whop-Land ... Italy). I have no choice.

But before every flight ... my dread starts to grow ... like a monster, in the pit of my stomach.

I start having nightmares. I start thinking "I still have a week to live... before i have to die" (one week before the flight for example).

I start wondering (morbidly) what the headlines would look like on CNN when they will show the picture of a tug recovering a piece of the vertical stabilizer of the plane I was on board from the water.

I can't really help it.

I sholdn't be thinking like this. The more I think along these lines the more I hurt myself, my digestion and my sleep.

I just can't really help it. I get to the point that forcing myself to NOT think about this ... becomes a daily chore by itself (before each flight).

I then disembark from the plane ... relieved, healthy, untouched and feeling like a complete idiot for letting my fears spoil my time with my family ...

From what I am reading I am not the only one that goes through this. I am relieved to know that many people have a similar morbid love for their terror (I am joking here).

The twist is ...

... I am a pilot. And when I am in the cockpit I can go through turbulence that would have made me scream in horror as a passenger in an airliners ... but when I have the yoke in my hand the only thing I can think of is ... what I am going to have for lunch. Flying makes me hungry ... when I am the pilot.

This complete and utter difference between me in a passenger seat and me in the pilot seat ... is completely amazing to me.

I don't get it ...

[WillFlyToDisney2]

Welcome to the board!

Sounds like you suffer from a lack of control - kind of like being a backseat driver. You trust yourself and know you can handle the airplane but you dont know the other guys up there flying the plane. You would rather be "driving" yourself than be riding blindly in the back not knowing what to expect.

I HATE to ride with anyone and would much rather drive. I am one of those bad passengers who constantly slams my foot into the floorboard to slow down the car. I have even been known to grip a dashboard or 2.

What kind of planes do you fly? How long have you been a pilot?

Thanks for sharing your story and welcome. We're a fun group!

Kelley

[JPenny]

Welcome, Marco!!! I'm glad you're here. You can gain help yourself, plus giving all your flying knowledge to the rest of us. Thanks for coming!!!
:wave
Jean

P.S. You'll love all the smiley's here, too!!

:welcome

[xiknal]

...I've just spent a half hour or so over at The Pilot Lounge browsing around. It looks like a neat site, so I registered. My screen name is 'aerobat' over there. I regularly instruct in a C-152 Aerobat with the Sparrowhawk mod to the O235-L2C engine; it adds all of 15 hp., but it is nice in those endless climbs between maneuvers. I have been teaching beginners and basic aerobatics for six years. Five years before that, I busted through a terrible fear of flying to discover that flying is awesome...

flying's a wild and sweet desire;
it captures the soul with a wizard's art;
it crowns us with valor under fire,
and gives us joy and peace of heart!

So, welcome to our friendly support forum! I am sure your thoughts and experiences will be much appreciated here.

I tend to agree with what Kelley said regarding the loss-of-control issue, though of course we haven't had a chance to chew the fat about it yet. When I started flying again after being grounded for 13 years (before I became a pilot, though) I had to put a lot of attention on the control issue. For me, that process accompanied my first venture into flight training, and I was so starry-eyed and impressed with it all that I found it not too hard to build bridges between my CFI (ex-AF jock who sat at the right hand of God) and the people who fly the big commercial jets. Of course, I found out later that we are all human, and fallible, but somewhere in there I learned to happily give up control while flying commercially, and that *surrender* was such a kick (am I crazy? :crazy )! Now it's more a normal thing, very much OK though.

You and Kelley might want to chat about your trigger events sometime, since you both had a REALLY SCARY kickoff to your FoF. In my case, it was all in my imagination! :mickey

...by the way, we don't need inverted fuel and oil to do Cuban 8s and Immelmanns in the Aerobat:jump ...just a little finesse at the point of push...inverted spins are verboten, though:shakehead

Barb

[WillFlyToDisney2]

Yes all of us with super scary flights as the catalyst to our FOF raise your hand! :yoohoo

On that same note though, as a pilot friend of mine keeps telling me, "yes, but you landed safely"..... He's right, I know.

Kelley

[ChiefAtHeart]

Hi Marco :wave

I, too, had a bad flight in 2002 that kicked off my fear of flying. It can be hard to overcome. I have flown several times since then and each time I expected the fear to get better, but instead it only got worse. This site is a great place for support and info. I hope you enjoy hanging out with us here!

Jen

[beaugest]

Let me add my welcome...
I have read posts from other folks who fly that have a fear of flying when not in the drivers seat. Makes sense to me.
I have no clue how to fly but I have a strong desire to be in control.
Anyway, welcome. I'm so glad you found this place.:fly

[MarcoAviator]

Thank you all!

RE lack of control: yes, somebody mentioned it to me before ... I just find it astounding that control (or lack thereof) can cause such a dramatic switch in attitude towards flying in a person.

I mean I am far from a daredevil but when I am in the cockpit turbulence makes me go "Yeeh Haaaaaaa!!" while in an airliner I literally am so scared I feel I will pass out. I am not exaggerating.

As my instructor used to say "Anything can go wrong anytime, anywhere, for any reason". I am not any safer in my plane than I am in an airliner ...

He also used to say that the most dangerous part of the flight is the drive to the airport ... (I drive in NJ, I can vouch for that). So that also makes sense.

It's all in my head. I know. It's also frustrating cause when I am tense in airliner I keep thinking to myself "What's your major malfunction??? you are not scared of this. You are not supposed to be scared of this. You flew and landed in a lot worse than this. This plane is a lot better maintained than yours, the pilots have a lot more hours than you do, so STOP IT!!"

Obviously ... it doesn't work. :sigh

[YankssRule]

Hey Marco :yoohoo

I know I have a major problem with control when it comes to flying, but I also have a fear of heights, and yes, hate being in a "metal tube" thousands of feet in the air. So I can relate. Your story was very discriptive and scared me just reading it..not alone actually being in it..sorry to hear that you had such a horrific plane ride.

But, you have come to the right board, for the right help. ;)
The people in this board are awesome, and give lots of help and advice, they have helped me when the time was needed.
And I'm sure they can do the same for you Marco. :sunshine

Janet :flowers

[MarcoAviator]

"Your story was very discriptive and scared me just reading it..not alone actually being in it.."

Sorry ... :(

[YankssRule]

Marc :yoohoo

Please don't apologize, there is no need for that. I'm just glad you came aboard on this site, and I hope that you get the help that you are looking for. :type

Janet :coffee

[xiknal]

How do you feel when you go flying with a friend and they are at the controls?

How about driving...are you a relaxed passenger or a nervous one, or a backseat driver?

How much of the difficulty do ya suppose is the control issue specifically, vs. how much it might be the lack of a good view of (1) the controls, (2) the air out in front of you, and (3) the relation between the PIC, the controls, and the movements of the plane?

:)

[spleisher]

Marco,

I know where, you are.. I STILL don't like to fly in the rear end of a plane as much as I like to be flying it myself. A lot of pilots feel that way, but for me, learning how to fly sorta helped me get over my FoF. We're all here for you though, and there are plenty of other pilots here as well.

Welcome!
Scott

[MarcoAviator]

Excellent questions!

How do you feel when you go flying with a friend and they are at the controls?

It hasn't happened that often but those few times it did happen I didn't have a problem. I need to "experiment" more to be sure since I have always flown front seat and all planes (except the old Bonanza 35) have dual controls.

How about driving...are you a relaxed passenger or a nervous one, or a backseat driver?
Relaxed. I couldn't care less. Except whem my dad is driving... he has this habit of stomping on the pedals (accelerator and brakes) so that you are constantly going back and forth and it kinda takes a toll on ya after a while ... but fear has nothing to do with it.
Just motion sickness.

How much of the difficulty do ya suppose is the control issue specifically, vs. how much it might be the lack of a good view of (1) the controls,
Good question ... I don't know for sure.

(2) the air out in front of you, and
Excellent point. In my plane I have a good 300 degrees view around me. even in turbulence I can see it's the plane getting shaken around me and I find that comforting. In an airliner the view is very constricted and in turbulence the entire thing is shaking and I can't tell how much. A little seems like a lot and I find that disturbing.

(3) the relation between the PIC, the controls, and the movements of the plane?
that might also be it ... but I am a bit fuzzy about it.

I am not so much scared of the PIC or the fact that I am not the PIC ... I am more scared of the fact that I don't know if the PIC knows the plane. He/she may trust a plane that is not working and ready to fall apart.

I preflight the living hell out of my plane before each flight (I am a pilot that is a bit anal about preflights ... it takes me twice as long as everyone else and I am proud of it cause I am very thorough). I triple check everything in the plane.

... i don't know if the pilot of an airliner did the same and in fact I know that they don't. It's impracticle for them to do that.

The ground crew preflights the plane for them ... and how much can they preflight a machine as complex as an airliner? How many things can break in it that nobody can see? how much can you trust the groudn crew since they will NOT go on the plane? they'll stay on the ground?

(yeah you could say the same about my plane ... but my plane is simple. there's really not much about it that can break at the end of the day and if it does break, it glides ... not well but it does).

This could start a whole other discussion about aircraft technology safety and ...

... I am REALLY concerned because I don't know if I can post my concerns here.

There are some good folks here (I have been reading this forum for a bit) and ... I am scared that if I start to bring up MY doubts I will cast new fuel to the FOF fire ... of those folks that somehow are managing to keep the monster under control ... :cower

[MarcoAviator]

Marco,

I know where, you are.. I STILL don't like to fly in the rear end of a plane as much as I like to be flying it myself. A lot of pilots feel that way, but for me, learning how to fly sorta helped me get over my FoF. We're all here for you though, and there are plenty of other pilots here as well.

Welcome!
Scott
thanks scott.

I have never flown in the back of a GA plane. I would need to try it ... in order to be able to tell.

For the most part, 99% of the time I have been flying left seat and those few times I flew right seat I thought to myself: "you are about to fly with someone you don't really know and you don't know if you can trust. He's going to be PIC. You will not be PIC and you are not supposed to touch the controls. You'll be out of control. You should be scared."

... but I am not.

That's one thing that baffles me.

[spleisher]

yeah.. but the controls are still right there.. The other big difference about GA, front or back, or sitting in the front of a large plane.. .The perspective is totally different.

Nothing compares to being in the back of a commercial airliner. I've posted it a bunch of times, but when you compare being in a GA aircraft to being in the back of an airliner, it's really apples and oranges...

So, I can understand why you could be afraid of one and not the other. There's no shame in it!

[xiknal]

Well, it may be the lack of a good view--absence of the gestalt experience of being in the cockpit with the PIC and the controls and the panel and feeling the plane seat-o'-the pants...

...plus smoldering doubts about how well that airliner is really maintained.

Not much you can do about the first problem, except go gitchyse'f a B-737 type rating.

Are you saying that you know things about shoddy airliner mx that are best not voiced here? Or are your concerns more in the form of suspicions and lack of access to the horse's mouth on airliner maintenance?

I will say that my discomfort with turb as a passenger was the last item of my FoF to finally go away (years after my big push). That discomfort continued well past my becoming a pilot and then an aerobatic instructor (and one who also loves gnarly crosswinds and strong thermals and has something of that yee-hah! attitude about turb in a small plane). I am always reassuring my new students about turb--genuinely.

For me, on an airliner, I really think it is/was the lack of the forward view and the relationship between control inputs and aircraft movements. I feel I am pretty trusting of the pilots and of maintenance (which is a LOT better than on the little planes I fly). There's also plenty of redundancy on an airliner, such that there is precious little that can go wrong without it (1) being a non-issue safety-wise or (2) having an immediate backup system come online or (3) having an emergency checklist for that item and pilots who have drilled for that emergency in the simulator a bazillion times. Those things together make me feel pretty comfortable.

But my scary over-the-top flights (the ones that grounded me as a passenger in 1971) involved weather and turb also, and we're dealing with parts of our brains that are in some respects, stubborn as mules, or.. heh heh finally get to use this'un

:deadhorse

[MarcoAviator]

Well, it may be the lack of a good view--absence of the gestalt experience of being in the cockpit with the PIC and the controls and the panel and feeling the plane seat-o'-the pants...

...plus smoldering doubts about how well that airliner is really maintained.

Not much you can do about the first problem, except go gitchyse'f a B-737 type rating.

I will likely never become an airline pilot (I have a job and it pays the bills and starting a new career might not be possible at my age ... wouldn't it be ironic though? the terrified passenger takes the utlimate FOF cure: becomes an airline pilot)

Are you saying that you know things about shoddy airliner mx that are best not voiced here? Or are your concerns more in the form of suspicions and lack of access to the horse's mouth on airliner maintenance?

Suspicions. I know nothing about airliners other than what's on TV, books and the NTSB database. I have no direct experience on anything bigger than a Cessna Skylane.

I know what I know about Alaska 261, TWA 800 or AA 587.

I studied them in detail, to figure out if there was anything the pilots could do. In all cases it just ends up to the conclusion that there was nothing that could be done. Again, I am wary of going into details here since I don't want to spread my "techincal" fear to other people.

Fact is, if you were to take one plane every day for the rest of your life (since the day you were born), by the time you are 81 (or so) you MIGHT have a chance to die in a plane crash. (Funny statistic ... but makes you think).

Again, rationally I have more chances of dying of cancer.

I will say that my discomfort with turb as a passenger was the last item of my FoF to finally go away (years after my big push). That discomfort continued well past my becoming a pilot and then an aerobatic instructor (and one who also loves gnarly crosswinds and strong thermals and has something of that yee-hah! attitude about turb in a small plane). I am always reassuring my new students about turb--genuinely.

I won my GA fear of turbulence by ... just constantly flying into it. At some point you just get used to it.


For me, on an airliner, I really think it is/was the lack of the forward view and the relationship between control inputs and aircraft movements. I feel I am pretty trusting of the pilots and of maintenance (which is a LOT better than on the little planes I fly). There's also plenty of redundancy on an airliner, such that there is precious little that can go wrong without it (1) being a non-issue safety-wise or (2) having an immediate backup system come online or (3) having an emergency checklist for that item and pilots who have drilled for that emergency in the simulator a bazillion times. Those things together make me feel pretty comfortable

But my scary over-the-top flights (the ones that grounded me as a passenger in 1971) involved weather and turb also, and we're dealing with parts of our brains that are in some respects, stubborn as mules, or.. heh heh finally get to use this'un.

... tell me about it :blink

[spleisher]

I hate to play the numbers game and give the canned, boring argument in favor of our maintenance procedures... but how many departures are there in the US? And how often do they end in Tragedy. Sure, it happens... but I like my odds. I know that does not help a BIT, and I also know that you already know all of that, but heck, it always bears repeating....

[MarcoAviator]

I hate to play the numbers game and give the canned, boring argument in favor of our maintenance procedures... but how many departures are there in the US? And how often do they end in Tragedy. Sure, it happens... but I like my odds. I know that does not help a BIT, and I also know that you already know all of that, but heck, it always bears repeating....

Yeah I know.

As I said, I have more chances of dying of common cold or feline-allergy.

To my stubborn mind, it doesn't matter. All it matters is that it happened before and it will happen to me, NOW.

Then five minutes go by and i stare out the window at the wing and after I start thinking "it will happen NOW!" and I imagine the rudder separating, or the elevator snapping or some explosive decompression and my adrenaline goes up again ... and then down ... and after 5 more minutes it repeats.

That's pretty much any one of my flights... in a nutshell.

Can you be bored and scared at the same time? I can ...

[WillFlyToDisney2]

Marco,

Great posts. If you have any specific concerns about commercial aviation then I would encourage you to post those specific concerns under the "Ask Captain Ray" forum. Ray is a 737 Captain for Southwest and has been for many moons (although he still looks 21!). :ray There are several other pilots on the board who would be able to answer your questions as well. Capt Bob is a retired airline captain and Michael is currently a CRJ F/O with a major airline.

Personally I would rather learn as much as I can about why things work the way they do. If you are scared that your questions may not be something you want to post (and thank you in advance for that) then feel free to email Ray directly or send him a PM. His email address is on his website at www.thisisyourcaptainspeaking.com (http://www.thisisyourcaptainspeaking.com).

Statistics to me aren't really all that comforting. I was on one of those "one in a million" flights that could very well have ended badly (or at least in my mind that is how I see it) but we landed fine and I am fighting the FOF monster :troll the best I can by flying as much as I can and talking to pilots and other professionals about my concerns.

And I think the ultimate way to overcome your FOF would be to earn that 737 rating. GO FOR IT!

:)
Kelley

[xiknal]

...learning to TRICK the mule! ;)

the rest is practice, practice, practice...

[spleisher]

Actually, weird as it sounds, I can COMPLETELY relate... I have done the EXACT same thing. I still do to a much lesser degree, and I have a bit of time in the left seat myself. We need a psychologist on this site!!! Barb's pretty good at that end of things.

[Disney fan]

Marco,

Just wanted to add my welcome. The people here a wonderful, very supportive and they care!

:welcome

Lynda

[MarcoAviator]

Again, thanks for the replies guys.

Glad to read that I am not completely nuts.

I keep feeling like an idiot being a pilot and being a terrified passenger at the same time.

I am glad to see that I am not the only one here who has similar experiences.

I thought to myself that if you are a pilot you have NO JUSTIFICATION to be afraid to fly. You have no right to be afraid to fly because you are part of aviation.

If anything the fact that i am a pilot is making me feel more "ashamed" of of my fear.

You know how in the cartoons the have a little devil and a little angel on the shoulders that get into arguments with each other?

Well I have the same only one is a pilot and the other a passenger and the Pilot goes

"you are such a wuss. You should be ashamed of yourself. How do I get out of this place? I wanna get away from him"

And the passenger just sits in a corner, pale, clutching the (immaginary) coach seat, mumbling to himself, terrified and says

"Leave me alone. Leave me alone. Leave me alone".

(Ok ok ... maybe this is a tad over-dramatic ... I really don't talk to myself and I don't hear voices ... but it's not far from the truth).

[spleisher]

Again... strange as it sounds.. that is not overly dramatic!!!... I have felt the SAME THING... especially in my early days of learning how to fly.... I have literally KICKED MYSELF too. I know EXACTLY what you are going through...

Scott

[WillFlyToDisney2]

Psssst Marco - don't tell anyone but pilots are human too. :angel They are allowed to have normal human reactions and emotions (like fears). Hooray for you though working to overcome them.

Kelley

[xiknal]

Marco said:

wouldn't it be ironic though? the terrified passenger takes the utlimate FOF cure: becomes an airline pilot)

Actually, there is someone who did just that who used to post over on the other board. I wish we could get him to join us here, but he may not even know that we have "swarmed". He is a 737 pilot living in England named Andrew, and his handle is 737NGUK. Maybe one of our Zulu members can track him down, as we would all love to hear his story.

You just may have put your finger on the solution, though, Marco...maybe you don't think so but hey...have you ever heard the statement "the problem is the brain and not the plane" ?? :sunshine

I spent the better part of 30 years with those two little rascals :gossip perched on either shoulder :gossip duking it out. I was not a pilot during my grounded decades, but I was an adventurer, doing high-risk caving for sport and meager pay (cave explorer for the Peace Corps, but would not fly to go on those home visits on their nickel) and I still have that attitude (tempered, ahem, by time and the close calls). For me, that struggle between the terror and the boldness obscured the path I needed to take. I kept my fear a total secret, assumed I was so unique nothing could help me. That set me up for all sorts of wrong assumptions. What a relief it was to jettison them--those and my negative plane-will crash-cause-I-am-on -it inflation!! That's part of why busting through the fear was such a sustained rush!!

Go have a look in the Links for FoF Help section and see what you can find out about techniques for taking immediate control of runaway emotions. There are a number of different ones, and not all work well for everyone. One has to experiment and then, when one feels a good tug, practice! We have to be circumspect on the discussion forum lest we seem to be endorsing methods and programs--for good reasons. But there are tricks that will fool the mule...of this I am certain! :lol

Barb

[EditorASC]

"...don't tell anyone but pilots are human too."

================

Not nice to say things like that............. :fuming

Do you know the difference between God and an airline pilot?

[WillFlyToDisney2]

No worries, Bob. I put pilots up on a pedestal just like they rightfully deserve - human or not. (I hear Deb's invisible friend is a pilot in training!)

Kelley

[xiknal]

EditorASC wrote:

Do you know the difference between God and an airline pilot?

Bob, that sounds like a set-up if I ever heard one!
Okay, I'll bite. What is the difference??? :shocked

[WillFlyToDisney2]

Hmmmm.... Altitude?

Kelley

[xiknal]

er...maybe it is that God is, um...fallible? ;)

[LesliePHX]

Answer: God doesn't think he's an airline pilot.

:rolling

(I heard it before)

[Chelle]

Marco, just wanted to say welcome to the forums

:welcome